I'm new to SEO and GSA and I found your thread extremely interesting ron, thank you
I am thinking of manually creating a few high quality Web 2.0s - wondering if I could do them all from my email/IP or whether I would need proxies?
And then I could use GSA for some higher PR backlinks for some link diversity + use GSA to just create as many backlinks as possible to my tiered Web 2.0's
So as Tier 1: manual Web 2.0's (say 5 of them with hand written unique articles) + manual youtube/googleplus page + purchased or manual high PR links as Tier 1... and then repeat the process for Tier 2 pointing at Tier 1
And blast the Tier 1 and Tier 2 pages with GSA
Thank you ron
I noticed that all of your high PR blog links per your diagram actually point to the Web 2.0s and articles so they don't hit your money site directly - is there any issue with link diversity or should I focus all of my efforts on the Web 2.0s?
I just created my first Web 2.0 (hand written content and embedded video) that links to my moneysite with my main keyword, so now I will use GSA to focus directly on that Web 2.0 tier 1 page.
You need to learn what high quality links are and I highly recommend that you hit some seo forums. You have bought an seo gun but you lack training on how to get in an seo fight.
I know you want to fire off your shiny new gun. But I strongly recommend that you first learn some seo and develop an seo plan. Dead serious. Otherwise you will completely waste your time.
Yes you enter a maintenance mode and try to keep total net links increasing slightly. And I don't mean your SER total links. I mean your majestic or ahrefs graph. Which means after losing x links, you built y new links; and your net links after losses is increasing. Another term for this is a net positive link velocity. I may have just made up that first part before link velocity, but that is a descriptive way to say it.
For the Tier 1 links, assuming that you use GSA SER for them and filter to Web 2.0/Social Networks/Articles, do you filter for PR for those at all? (eg pr > 3)?
Or do you just keep them unfiltered at 10 per day and it doesn't matter what their PR is?
I always did it with no filters, and enjoyed a long run (10+ months) until Penguin hit. Not all sites got hit, but many did.
I know you can take a new site post-Penguin 2.0 using that strategy and still do well. The issue lies in whether this is a good strategy for longer term.
Without getting too philosophical here, the timeline for websites ranking continues to decrease. Expect a run of 6 months to 1 year - in most cases.
Now I see plenty of sites ranking with spam, weak T1's (meaning PR N/A and PR0), and all sorts of other junk. I also have seen a ton of whitehat sites that don't even do SEO get hammered. So it almost doesn't matter because no matter what you do, you have a very high probability of getting hurt in the next big update.
I know that this is a long answer, but yes, I would prefer to build PR1+ (domain rank) T1's to the moneysites if at all possible. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it probably won't matter, and you will probably get hit anyway.
So I am doing it both ways, and I am going to see on the next update if all this "theory" about PR1+ even matters. I would bet money that it doesn't matter.
I think it is far wiser to have a mindset that sites are going to burn within 6 months - 1 year, and you will need to replace them. That is my belief in a nutshell.
Awesome thank you so much for the in depth analysis.
It seems like in this kind of industry nobody really "knows" except the people working for Google, so even with years of experience people have to make their best guess. I will play it safe (although it probably still won't matter) and only go for PR1 and above for my Tier 1's.
I think I will also follow your advice of limiting T1's to 10 per day.
I've heard success stories of people who did up to 33 T1's per day for a fairly new site, but don't want to risk it... although there are others who blast thousands directly at their moneysite
I commend with what Ron said. I've other perfectly whitehat site which got a partial hit too (40% traffic decrease). So F Google. I didn't do or touched any damn SEO for it.
I've read recently on Google product forums too about guys having 15-16 year old domains got hit! They were angry like anything.
So there's no point, either way isn't going to save your ass from getting busted.
In 2012 Google made $44 Billion in advertising revenue. Its search engine is the means, the platform, to earn revenue from advertising.
In 2012 Google made $0 with organic listings. It gives a *zero* shit about websites in the organic listings.
You will continue to see a lot of games played with organic listings. In fact, I expect rankings on all sites to turn upside down on a fairly regular basis - forever. Why? Because if you can easily rank well, then that destroys Google's ability to get you to pay for your listings. They will forever create algorithms to turn the apple cart upside down in the organic listings. It is 100% in their best business interest to do so.
The only exceptions I see to this are larger companies and other advertisers that pay money to Google via their search and content networks.
So when you are faced with a one-sided situation like this - where it is their playground, their bat, their ball, and where they are the umpire or referee - then you must adapt.
They have gamed the search engine to be their advertising revenue giant. Likewise, it is our obligation to game their system to make as much money as we can. They don't care about us, and we don't care about them.
And for all goodie-two-shoes that talk about white hat, well, that is the definition of retarded. And I apologize to all of the retarded people that I offended with that remark, as they know a helluva lot more about how things work in real life than these little google suck-ups.
Absolutely not. It was intended for the white hat community because they don't understand business. And it was also intended for those (in a moment of weakness and utter delusion) that think they can be good boys and girls and get rewarded by google. It's not going to happen.
@ron Yeah, absolutely. Google will kick everybody's ass these days, like it did to mine for a perfectly legitimate site and other 16 year old players too. Basically, I think Google's algo is just random like anything. I've seen it rewarding spammed sites like hell and trashing the perfectly legitimate sites.
Just to re-enforce what @ron was saying regarding Google and their plans for organic results, I read a study earlier this week where the typical organic results screen space when viewed on typical laptop (more ppl have laptops than desktops) averaged at 7%, with the highest being 13%.
The rest of the space (87%+ of the actual page space) was given over to paid results or Google's other properties.
I've been using GSA also since its beginning. I did about a year of
testing with GSA and some products. This whole PR theory is absolute
crap and I don't even waste my time anymore with it. Personally, I use
GSA for different purposes. Long story short - I make my web 2.0 with
FCS (fcsnetworker.com), post a article to make sure they are live, pull
them out of FCS and put them in GSA -- 50 webbies per project. And let
them rip for backlinks. It increases the PA (screw PR) and in turn my
tiers and more powerful then people realize. I have thousands of web 2.0
now that are in the PA50s and 60s. So I have several different projects
going, GSA Ranking, GSA Spamming and GSA PA building. I don't think the
sites are going to be so much of a churn and burn bc the tiers1 (web
2.0 PA 60s+) are so strong they shouldn't tank. At least as of yet they
haven't. Skype me if you want to chat more about it though ....
greeny12322
I screwed up and posted it in this thread, and Pratik replied so I just left it. I came back here to remove it but he already replied so I figured I will leave it in.
My best day ever. Maintained an LPM of 50+ since past 12 hours (letting SER scrape as well, that means no pre-scraped lists other than submitted and verified lists), it's a record! Otherwise I was always down to slowly at 28-35.
Already submitted 36.5K links today and more 11 or so hours to go!
You know, this is summer, and most people are enjoying themselves, and not spending too much time on the internet. So generally speaking, for most affiliate markets, business is slow.
This would be a great time to learn how to not use site lists, and maximize your LPM. I always held the belief from the very beginning that I wanted to see how well I could do with SER "straight out of the box".
Typically I average 120 - 150 LPM with no site lists or scraped lists, but I did hit 200+ on earlier versions of SER. One of the big advantages of using the SER scrape is that your verified list gets massive, and a great thing to have for a rainy day, or when you have some newer sites you want to spam like crazy.
So if you want to really figure out the software for your long term benefit, do it without any "speed enhancers" like site lists. Try different settings, search engines, keyword lists, engine footprints, and most of all, analyze your stats on submitted vs. verified for each engine. Then when you get SER really flying without lists, then you can do unbelievable stuff with site lists and scraped lists. So do things in the proper order to get the most out of SER.
@Ron. I know you're really good at SEO but are you keeping track of your links in BLM? The reason I say this is your rank loss could be due to lots of deleted links in your Tiers and not a really a Penguin thing. I did not lose any sites during Penguin but I have seen rank slips and coincidentally those tiers had large links loss. Just my two cents.
greeny1232. Interested in your strategy. I am doing something similar but certainly room for improvement. I would love to hear some info on your set up like ... how many incoming links do you target per Tier 1, which engines do you use, PR filters, and how do you go about getting everything indexed?
For sure deleted links is an issue. Monitoring deleted links (especially net positive link velocity) is at the top of my priority list when it comes to ranking.
But there isn't any coincidence when sites get hit on 4-24-2012 and 5-20-2013. Those results are immediate and easy to identify.
I probably should get BLM. I put it off because it was just another expenditure (but it is only $75). My question for you is why would anyone need it since you can see what links were deleted on ahrefs or majestic? What is the advantage? Is there some insight that software gives you that the other services miss? I'm curious.
Ron, majestic and ahrefs do not report a LOT of links to begin with so dont use that if you need accurate numbers.
I have been running sites on a ton of incontent links and ahrefs only shows maybe 300 of the thousands I built to it. This is after 3 months still.
Also, when talking about high LPM, I think people need to know how many projects are being ran to get those numbers. Too many people "150 LPM" or "200 LPM", but 150 LPM on 2 projects running is way different then 150 LPM on 10 running projects.
I can get 250 LPM on site lists and optimized engines with 3 running projects. I can only get 101 LPM on about 3 running projects on just SER alone though.
Yeah I've always said the same. People start out with a few projects thinking they are going to have a great LPM. You need to reach a certain level of projects before you see the LPM really spin.
I know those services don't capture all links. But it does capture enough data to show you whether you are having problems with link velocity. A national poll can tell with 1200 voters who's going to win an election. They don't need all 100 million voters to figure it out. The same concept here. The sample size is way more than enough to spot a problem.
Comments
You should figure out a better method for higher PR links, like doing them manually or buying them. And yes, you build tiers below the 2.0's.
I know you want to fire off your shiny new gun. But I strongly recommend that you first learn some seo and develop an seo plan. Dead serious. Otherwise you will completely waste your time.
I always did it with no filters, and enjoyed a long run (10+ months) until Penguin hit. Not all sites got hit, but many did.
I know you can take a new site post-Penguin 2.0 using that strategy and still do well. The issue lies in whether this is a good strategy for longer term.
Without getting too philosophical here, the timeline for websites ranking continues to decrease. Expect a run of 6 months to 1 year - in most cases.
Now I see plenty of sites ranking with spam, weak T1's (meaning PR N/A and PR0), and all sorts of other junk. I also have seen a ton of whitehat sites that don't even do SEO get hammered. So it almost doesn't matter because no matter what you do, you have a very high probability of getting hurt in the next big update.
I know that this is a long answer, but yes, I would prefer to build PR1+ (domain rank) T1's to the moneysites if at all possible. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it probably won't matter, and you will probably get hit anyway.
So I am doing it both ways, and I am going to see on the next update if all this "theory" about PR1+ even matters. I would bet money that it doesn't matter.
I think it is far wiser to have a mindset that sites are going to burn within 6 months - 1 year, and you will need to replace them. That is my belief in a nutshell.
It's a game. And here's the game..
In 2012 Google made $44 Billion in advertising revenue. Its search engine is the means, the platform, to earn revenue from advertising.
In 2012 Google made $0 with organic listings. It gives a *zero* shit about websites in the organic listings.
You will continue to see a lot of games played with organic listings. In fact, I expect rankings on all sites to turn upside down on a fairly regular basis - forever. Why? Because if you can easily rank well, then that destroys Google's ability to get you to pay for your listings. They will forever create algorithms to turn the apple cart upside down in the organic listings. It is 100% in their best business interest to do so.
The only exceptions I see to this are larger companies and other advertisers that pay money to Google via their search and content networks.
So when you are faced with a one-sided situation like this - where it is their playground, their bat, their ball, and where they are the umpire or referee - then you must adapt.
They have gamed the search engine to be their advertising revenue giant. Likewise, it is our obligation to game their system to make as much money as we can. They don't care about us, and we don't care about them.
And for all goodie-two-shoes that talk about white hat, well, that is the definition of retarded. And I apologize to all of the retarded people that I offended with that remark, as they know a helluva lot more about how things work in real life than these little google suck-ups.
The rest of the space (87%+ of the actual page space) was given over to paid results or Google's other properties.
You know, this is summer, and most people are enjoying themselves, and not spending too much time on the internet. So generally speaking, for most affiliate markets, business is slow.
This would be a great time to learn how to not use site lists, and maximize your LPM. I always held the belief from the very beginning that I wanted to see how well I could do with SER "straight out of the box".
Typically I average 120 - 150 LPM with no site lists or scraped lists, but I did hit 200+ on earlier versions of SER. One of the big advantages of using the SER scrape is that your verified list gets massive, and a great thing to have for a rainy day, or when you have some newer sites you want to spam like crazy.
So if you want to really figure out the software for your long term benefit, do it without any "speed enhancers" like site lists. Try different settings, search engines, keyword lists, engine footprints, and most of all, analyze your stats on submitted vs. verified for each engine. Then when you get SER really flying without lists, then you can do unbelievable stuff with site lists and scraped lists. So do things in the proper order to get the most out of SER.
For sure deleted links is an issue. Monitoring deleted links (especially net positive link velocity) is at the top of my priority list when it comes to ranking.
But there isn't any coincidence when sites get hit on 4-24-2012 and 5-20-2013. Those results are immediate and easy to identify.
I probably should get BLM. I put it off because it was just another expenditure (but it is only $75). My question for you is why would anyone need it since you can see what links were deleted on ahrefs or majestic? What is the advantage? Is there some insight that software gives you that the other services miss? I'm curious.
Yeah I've always said the same. People start out with a few projects thinking they are going to have a great LPM. You need to reach a certain level of projects before you see the LPM really spin.
I know those services don't capture all links. But it does capture enough data to show you whether you are having problems with link velocity. A national poll can tell with 1200 voters who's going to win an election. They don't need all 100 million voters to figure it out. The same concept here. The sample size is way more than enough to spot a problem.