@sweeppicker weird, to me your last sentence makes no sense, how can spun content = spammy links? It's like saying apples = showergel, they have no bearing on each other.
There are only so many hours in the day. I'd rather spend my time and money buying and building quality (lol) links with spun content. I cannot possibly do both, it is impossible. My spun content can get me to number 1, so why try harder? Granted your situation and niche may be different however I suspect there are other factors at play that are affecting your spun vs. unspun hypothesis, eg. sentence length, article length, relevancy of keywords, etc
Texts can be spun so that even a human can't tell the difference, it's all about quality, not if it is spun or not, imo. But true that most spuns are spammy. If you use one click spinning - yea prob a robot can detect it, if you do it quality (and don't overuse it of course) - it is not logical to be detected as spam, otherwise all news, product reviews and half the internet would be penalized.
If their robot is so smart on grammar, why don't they adopt it on G Translate? You put a nice text there.. and the translation seems like worst spun sh*t ever - same words have different meanings depending on the context and a robot can't understand it.
I think as Panda is content related, thin content, on-page over optimization, clear spam text are reasons to get into trouble. Make natural and readable content, produce useful information on site, and there should be no reasons to get into trouble. I don't want to say BH is dead, but you just need to be ready to start things over again after an update.
Good discussion guys. No problem with differences in opinion as there are a lot of veterans here. I've known @sweeppicker for a long time on other boards so I know he knows his stuff. I might have to disagree on the spun content part, but I would balance it by saying I haven't done straight up tests on spun content vs. non-spun content.
I know that I always use spun content and haven't had issues. But my spin on properties I care about are always human spun which is 1000% readable. So I find all of this debate interesting. I also know @hunar has a zillion sites, so he would know as well if spun content works.
If I had to take a stab at it, I would say there are other factors that may have crossed into the results that made it appear that spun content was the issue, but it really was other variables. Or just the random Google thing where some sites never get love for no apparent reason.
IMHO, Google's algo is getting better at detecting crappy spun content with Hummingbird and Panda. The way to avoid problems is to use quality spun content on tier 1. I also believe, with no proof whatsoever, that using high quality spun content on your other tiers is a very good idea, even if not for now, then future-proofing your links.
Google keeps getting smarter and evolving. We need to also. Don't build links based solely on what works today. Stay 2 steps ahead, and that starts with using better quality spun content.
ron. Thanks Ron. Everyone has different strategies and working theories and this is what's working best for me. Hopefully it can help out some people who have been penalized and give others some ideas on how they approach SEO.
I didn't expect everyone to agree with me but it's good to have a lively discussion.
I still think it's the relevancy of the words in the spun text. If you spin text that's supposed to be about Bing and it generates text on search engines, then that's not bad, but if it generates text on Chandler Bing off Friends obviously it's going to not rank as well. Or that's my theory.
Either way, I note that you said you have many sites sweeppicker; how can you possibly write unique stuff for 100+ sites? Or do you get others to do it? I don't like writing off things without trying them but unless I'm missing something it's just impossible to do on any sort of scale?
It's hard to draw conclusions before the dust settles i guess.
My sites are still bouncing like crazy, hard to see much of a pattern as to why some have improved and some have been decimated, with vast majority somewhere in between
spunko2010 . Tons of outsourcing over ten years. I've been building sites since 2004 so it's taken a while. Not all of them are doing well. Some have been spammed, some of have been recovered, and some are doing great.
@satans_apprentice brought up something very smart that none of us talk about, and that is Hummingbird. There is a logic to that algo where they look at the various words, LSI, etc. you have on a page, and if I am not mistaken, they also look at the other pages on your site to see if it "fits" with what Google would expect a legit site to have (if it were a legit authority site).
Maybe he can expand on this because he knows his stuff.
I'll wait for a few days for the dust to settle, delete my identified and verified and start scraping from scratch. From now on I'll take a week off every time any animal comes to stage
Google has been investing heavily in "Semantic Search", and Hummingbird is the first step in building truly intelligent search algorithms. Semantic Search, in short, is about deducing a user's intent when searching, and at the same time, understand what the content on a page is really about. Keyword density doesn't matter much any more, and it has gotten much easier to rank for multiple stems of a keyword on a single page. Ex: HR Outsourcing, Human Resources Outsourcing, Outsource HR, etc.
It also allows Google to determine bad content via bad grammar and unrelated terms on a page. This is what is coming, and some of it may be already here. The point is, that at some point in time, Google will be able to hammer badly spun content, and that it makes really good sense to use well spun, readable content as much as possible, even in lower tiers. For some niches, unfortunately, this isn't very practical. Even if Semantic Search doesn't penalize your money site, your lower tiers could be hurt.
+1 @Satans_apprentice. Absolute gold as always. Everything I've been reading of late pretty much agrees with what you've said. In fact they probably got it form you
I also have a suspicion that Pay Day Loan 2 is having more of impact not only on Pay Day Loan sites, but across a lot of Affiliate verticals, especially some of the more "competitive" ones that having been getting some press lately.
We all know the ones - some WH writes a Moz article about how he can't rank in a vert and it's cos everyone else is using SER *sob* *sob*
Another interesting thing I've noticed is pretty much all of my EMD are stronger - Is anyone else seeing that?
Hello everyone one ! The update is still going and some of my new sites took a dive I think this time its a little bit bigger update than it was before . Noticed lot of EMD coming out of dust and ranking well now . I suggest you not ot start new projects at the moment LOL
There is talk of Panda 4 now being part of the algo, so if you are doing the same things that caused your older sites to get whacked, then your new ones will also get whacked too.
If it is part of the algo then this can only be a positive...
Is Anyone else noticing that as these updates are occurring that nothing is moving much responding to Backlink seo? Usually after I do major back linking there is a lot of movement but right now, its like no movement at all.
Probably both, but I was talking about the update, it was not until the end of the dance, make quality and good result could have happened if there had not to spam before. But i'm not Matt
@theguruland - Don't put much stock in AHRefs or Majestic re: indexing. Their crawlers and databases are independent of Google's. The only database you can trust is Google Webmaster Tools.
I would also not put much faith in high DA/PA. This is a metric very similar to PageRank, which has been devalued. You can dump 100,000 links on a site, and it will have high DA/PA while google blacklists it.
The tools/metrics above are very helpful when analyzing a competitors site, but I would be very careful using them to measure my money site.
I m not sure if its because of the dance but ANY type of website created even recently and hitted with GSA or any other wseo tool its not ranking. Even for low competitive terms. Something is changed these days , I m not sure if in a definitive way or not . But I noticed that also many white hat websites have been hitted heavily LOL
As for all of this speculation from the lower tier individuals, you don't know what you're talking about and it's giving me such a bad headache reading all your absolute BS.
'Something is changed these days' 'Any type of website created even recently and hitted with GSA or any other wseo tool is not ranking' 'Today G. Will show us a new movie: the come back of dead websites!'
Do you think you're some sort of comic? Adam sandler perhaps? No, you're an idiot.
BS and BS, @theguruland your nickname should be theclown because you do make me laugh.
This same shit happens every year, you build sites, you 'churn and burn' with spammy shitty links and then they fall after a scheduled index refresh that happens EVERY YEAR, and then you piss and moan about your sites tanking.
Well let me tell you something buddy, I don't know how long you people have been doing SEO for a living but with those bullshit theories you're pushing out of your backside id go home and /wrists because they are retarded.
Every single year this happens and every single year people create these silly little threads for all to see, it's ridiculous, what are you achieving by it? You think by making threads like this and seeing others in your sandpit suffering from the same situation as you are going to pay you a wage or buy your next meal? You people are idiots and shouldn't be aloud to practice SEO.
If your putting your shitness down to SEO tools then leave this industry, at the end of the day, you people are the ones creating the spammy shitty spam spam and releasing it to the internet, stop moaning, start getting a strategy that works and stop using other peoples methods.
Such a waste of keyboard plastic I swear to god, how do you even manage to get off the crazy train and connect to the internet by yourselves? Perhaps you've got a thread going about that too.
@Tim89 thanks for the clear words, too much screaming children here, people who wonder why "churn and burn" and poor Linkbuilding does not work permanently.
All this has nothing to do with your Tools, only with the User.
Let me tell you exactly what's happened to cut a long story short OK?
google refreshes it's index and evaluates sites/pages once or twice a year, then they roll out their animal filters.
When they reevaluate websites within their index, they either down grade them or upgrade them and then this eventually gets shown by the PR updates which then come out a couple of months later.
By doing this, your backlinks will drop in authority or rise in authority, when your backlinks tank, you will tank, simple as that, no penalties included unless you've received a penalty notice.
Now, why do most people ditch the site and mov on to another domain? Because if your entire backlink profile has been messed with, it'll be much harder to start again with backlinks present, this could mess up your anchor ratios etc etc so it's easier to start afresh.
If you know an 'update' is coming along soon, you should be fortifying your backlinks by building more links to your links, insuring that your backlink profile has more than enough juice flowing through it to survive any devaluing.
Those people suffering from -100 -200 drops, should seriously start thinking of another strategy because what you're doing is not long term and those that have only suffered a -1 to -20 are on the right track.
My suggestion for all of you would be to keep track of your backlinks with a program similar to backlink monitor and then run a link check after these 'updates' index check them and then start building links to your links to bring their authority back.
OR
You could just start a thread up and chat bullshit all day long.
If you think people in this thread chat bullshit then why you even bother to come and see and write lines of nonsense that have been written for ages. Build authority to T1 links ? Tiered linking can work sometimes but honestly you think that people that uses this strategy didnt suffer from this update ? TThis update is different , it target spammy links and VERY WELL in my opinion . Unfortunately tool like SER and Xrumer ( for example ) do not offer total control on what type of links you are building. I try to build clean links all the time but some of my websites TANK ( to use your word) and some other lose position and some other stay there and get stronger. For me is a random process , same like @Ron says when you build up a new domain : sometimes it pick up and many times do not .
BacklinkMonitor : I use it all the time , no link loss for me or minimal deindexing. I used to monitor links all the time but I can not do it for all of my sites ofc .
--->>>>> "If you know an 'update' is coming along soon, you should be fortifying your backlinks by building more links to your links, insuring that your backlink profile has more than enough juice flowing through it to survive any devaluing."
YOU KNOW WHEN UPDATES ARE COMING ?????? Share how you do it ?
About insult you wrote in your last post , believe me I m very far to be SCEMO since I woork full time in this biz many years and judging from the 89 you have at the end of your nick I should also have some year more than you have Have a good day @Tim89
Well Fatty Cutts did say 'this week' , so if you believe him then this should be the last day, for a while anyway. For me my own sites have increased in rank slightly in the past 2 days, but that's probably because I've continued link building ever since they dropped slightly on Mon/Tue.
6 pages in and we're no closer to finding out what this targeted. I don't believe for a second it was on-page SEO/over optimization of Keywords. All of my sites are clones of each other, with unique text and similar keyword densities. It has to be related to linking.
I've decided I'm going to keep my site which lost the most ranks, I'd usually 301 it and start over but I've got enough of a safety net now to risk it and see.
I wish I had more return on web 2.0 and valid point of comparison to know in what direction we are going.
There should also be a logical consequence has come, I think the penalties that now crosses the 301, and asks me what our friend Matt can work well with his team to annoy us.
For me after the update on the content (with something like hummingbird), they surely go to dismantle the pyramid.
In this connection I have a site that has been severely punished for 2 years and I think it is interesting that all i link on (for exemple YouTube video) falls in serps.
If I remove the backlinks of this video pointing on my site penalized it back after 2 days ...
@theguruland well if you've been in this game far longer than me you should know already what to expect and you wouldn't need to make stupid, pointless threads such as this one would you?
It's a shame your italian, I feel ashamed coming from that country looking at your behavior, this thread provokes a lot of low level SEO's who don't know anything and is a waste of svens bandwidth and database storage, that's how pointless it is.
in regards to the number 89, well done on the deduction, however, this number could be the birthdate of my first child or possibly my first grandchild or what the hell minus 20 from it and it could be a position inthe kamasutra, you shouldn't make assumptions, you've made far too many already, I'd just quit if I were you and go make a thread on BHW, I'm sure there will be many newbs on there to provoke.
Let me make some deductions now,
What's the point in bumping your own thread at 7:21am "Today G. will show us a new movie : The Come Back of Dead Websites ! "
What is the point in further bumping your thread with: "its not over yet"
You clearly are a very bored individual who would very much prefer to make pointless remarks all day long instead of rebuilding the sites you've lost, possibly still living with parents as there is clearly no motivation to work on your livelyhood.
You have the understanding of a 15 year old, quite clearly...
This is my last post on your thread, do what you want but I do hope none of the known SEOs on this forum wastes their time responding to, put it quite frankly, a retard.
Apologies in advance to those who think this is harsh, it may just be, but oh well.
I really do not understand what is wrong with you Tim, I ve no hard feeling toward you or nobody here. If you think I m here to fool someone well you are wrong. That is the only point I want to underline . You really insult people very easily and clearly in every post you make here there is an insult that comes out from some personal reason you have but that I honestly do not understand. As I said before , if you do not like what I write just simply ignore me and ignore any other you think have a 15 years old understanding. It will save a lot of your nerves I suppose. Beside that I ve no hard feelings , peace.
Comments
There are only so many hours in the day. I'd rather spend my time and money buying and building quality (lol) links with spun content. I cannot possibly do both, it is impossible. My spun content can get me to number 1, so why try harder? Granted your situation and niche may be different however I suspect there are other factors at play that are affecting your spun vs. unspun hypothesis, eg. sentence length, article length, relevancy of keywords, etc
http://searchengineland.com/official-google-payday-loan-algorithm-2-0-launched-targets-spammy-queries-192027
Either way, I note that you said you have many sites sweeppicker; how can you possibly write unique stuff for 100+ sites? Or do you get others to do it? I don't like writing off things without trying them but unless I'm missing something it's just impossible to do on any sort of scale?
My sites are still bouncing like crazy, hard to see much of a pattern as to why some have improved and some have been decimated, with vast majority somewhere in between
I also have a suspicion that Pay Day Loan 2 is having more of impact not only on Pay Day Loan sites, but across a lot of Affiliate verticals, especially some of the more "competitive" ones that having been getting some press lately.
We all know the ones - some WH writes a Moz article about how he can't rank in a vert and it's cos everyone else is using SER *sob* *sob*
Another interesting thing I've noticed is pretty much all of my EMD are stronger - Is anyone else seeing that?
If it is part of the algo then this can only be a positive...
Pay attention to punctuation, for the rest of the french will always be too complex for an algorithm
Not index and not link on T1 directly ... take time, as many will plunge the result will be the same as before with less work.
Some of mine have dropped to PA 1. Not good!
http://mozcast.com/ showing 68 degree. So it seems like things are getting back to normal.
As for all of this speculation from the lower tier individuals, you don't know what you're talking about and it's giving me such a bad headache reading all your absolute BS.
'Something is changed these days'
'Any type of website created even recently and hitted with GSA or any other wseo tool is not ranking'
'Today G. Will show us a new movie: the come back of dead websites!'
Do you think you're some sort of comic? Adam sandler perhaps? No, you're an idiot.
BS and BS, @theguruland your nickname should be theclown because you do make me laugh.
This same shit happens every year, you build sites, you 'churn and burn' with spammy shitty links and then they fall after a scheduled index refresh that happens EVERY YEAR, and then you piss and moan about your sites tanking.
Well let me tell you something buddy, I don't know how long you people have been doing SEO for a living but with those bullshit theories you're pushing out of your backside id go home and /wrists because they are retarded.
Every single year this happens and every single year people create these silly little threads for all to see, it's ridiculous, what are you achieving by it? You think by making threads like this and seeing others in your sandpit suffering from the same situation as you are going to pay you a wage or buy your next meal? You people are idiots and shouldn't be aloud to practice SEO.
If your putting your shitness down to SEO tools then leave this industry, at the end of the day, you people are the ones creating the spammy shitty spam spam and releasing it to the internet, stop moaning, start getting a strategy that works and stop using other peoples methods.
Such a waste of keyboard plastic I swear to god, how do you even manage to get off the crazy train and connect to the internet by yourselves? Perhaps you've got a thread going about that too.
All this has nothing to do with your Tools, only with the User.
google refreshes it's index and evaluates sites/pages once or twice a year, then they roll out their animal filters.
When they reevaluate websites within their index, they either down grade them or upgrade them and then this eventually gets shown by the PR updates which then come out a couple of months later.
By doing this, your backlinks will drop in authority or rise in authority, when your backlinks tank, you will tank, simple as that, no penalties included unless you've received a penalty notice.
Now, why do most people ditch the site and mov on to another domain? Because if your entire backlink profile has been messed with, it'll be much harder to start again with backlinks present, this could mess up your anchor ratios etc etc so it's easier to start afresh.
If you know an 'update' is coming along soon, you should be fortifying your backlinks by building more links to your links, insuring that your backlink profile has more than enough juice flowing through it to survive any devaluing.
Those people suffering from -100 -200 drops, should seriously start thinking of another strategy because what you're doing is not long term and those that have only suffered a -1 to -20 are on the right track.
My suggestion for all of you would be to keep track of your backlinks with a program similar to backlink monitor and then run a link check after these 'updates' index check them and then start building links to your links to bring their authority back.
OR
You could just start a thread up and chat bullshit all day long.
6 pages in and we're no closer to finding out what this targeted. I don't believe for a second it was on-page SEO/over optimization of Keywords. All of my sites are clones of each other, with unique text and similar keyword densities. It has to be related to linking.
I've decided I'm going to keep my site which lost the most ranks, I'd usually 301 it and start over but I've got enough of a safety net now to risk it and see.
It's a shame your italian, I feel ashamed coming from that country looking at your behavior, this thread provokes a lot of low level SEO's who don't know anything and is a waste of svens bandwidth and database storage, that's how pointless it is.
in regards to the number 89, well done on the deduction, however, this number could be the birthdate of my first child or possibly my first grandchild or what the hell minus 20 from it and it could be a position inthe kamasutra, you shouldn't make assumptions, you've made far too many already, I'd just quit if I were you and go make a thread on BHW, I'm sure there will be many newbs on there to provoke.
Let me make some deductions now,
What's the point in bumping your own thread at 7:21am "Today G. will show us a new movie : The Come Back of Dead Websites ! "
What is the point in further bumping your thread with: "its not over yet"
You clearly are a very bored individual who would very much prefer to make pointless remarks all day long instead of rebuilding the sites you've lost, possibly still living with parents as there is clearly no motivation to work on your livelyhood.
You have the understanding of a 15 year old, quite clearly...
"^^ Doesn't know when to quit"
This is my last post on your thread, do what you want but I do hope none of the known SEOs on this forum wastes their time responding to, put it quite frankly, a retard.
Apologies in advance to those who think this is harsh, it may just be, but oh well.