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  • Also do anyone of you think I should build more links to make it rank back?
  • ronron SERLists.com

    @Pratik- Yeah 60% anchor text is about 54% more than I do   =))

    It really is hard to pick a reason for the fall. On 90% of all occasions where I fell, it was usually link loss, which is why I made it into such a huge deal on this forum.

    If I were a doctor, your prescription would be:

    1) Make 95% of your anchors going forward to be different terms, mostly in the niche (LSI etc.), and some generic

    2) I would add 15 "verified" links per day to your linkbuilding. I am taking a rough eyeball of the ahrefs link loss, and you are losing around 20 per day, and gaining about 5 per day. I probably exaggerated a little in both directions, and the real difference is probably 10 (not 15), but I would err on the strong side in this case. So if you have been building 20 links per day, make it 35 per day, etc.

    Going forward, try to target 6%-10% for your main anchor term.

    I cannot honestly tell if your issue is anchor text. As far as I know, anchor text slaps were only with Penguin, so April 24, 2012 and May 20, 2013. I do not know of anyone saying they lost rankings because of anchor text except for those updates.

    If I had to lay my money down, I would say link loss. That is usually my problem outside of the big algo updates. I do find it starnge to have link loss affecting such a new site, but that graph on ahrefs screams that you have a problem with losing links. I am just not 100% sure that is the reason here.

    I believe that being on the same server was not an issue for you. I have a ton of accounts on shared hosting, and I have never had that problem.

     

  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited September 2013
    Yes I agree with @ron link loss is really something.

    I would also suggest you change IP addresses, never have the same sites on the same IP. My host sells IP addresses at $2 per month.
  • I don't think these sites will be ever recovered. First one is not seen in 300 results, gone I guess. The second one moved from 7th page to 5th page (#1 position on 5th page) at least for me as researched from whatpageofsearchamion.com .

    I'm thinking to scrape off these projects and just make new sites and this time be careful.

    A couple of questions to here to experts like @ron @spunko2010 @Tim89 @2Take2 @donchino and many others

    What should I do if I want to make new same niche sites but on different completely new domain? Like I know from @ron 's post that I can use exact GSA project data and be in benefit. But what about, say, IP address? Would I need to change now to new hosting as I'm again going to use same niche site but a different domain on same server IP? Would that cause a problem? I have doubt somewhere I guess.

    Also, I assume I'd need to change site design and write up right or otherwise Google will definitely notice my motives lol right?

    Thank you.
  • ronron SERLists.com

    @Pratik, I never let that stop me. I'm not sure if you have a shared hosting account like HostGator, but if you do, you end up with a small IP range. When you create a new hosting account, you will typically get assigned a different number, but not always. If you do get the exact same IP, just delete that new hosting account, and recreate a new one until you end up with a different IP.

    Once you flush the cache like I wrote about, the old site is essentially out of the system. So you can keep everything the same on the new account. That has worked for me.

  • @ron I'm not sure how as a shared hosting customer we're allowed to "delete new hosting account".

    Even if that's not possible, should me sticking to same old IP be fine?

    Thanks.
  • 2Take22Take2 UK
    edited September 2013
    @ron, would it be OK to just to use addon domains in the same hosting account (provided you don't link them)?
  • ronron SERLists.com
    I have never used addon domains, but I think I would take a pass. Although they are allegedly distinct, I don't see why you wouldn't set up a new domain.
  • ronron SERLists.com
    @Pratik, in the left hand margin: Account Functions>Terminate An Account.
  • @ron I don't use hostgator. I use another hosting company which is a long time player too, but uses WHMCS. So assuming I'll have to stick to it. And yes, I've had quite few domains hosted on it, so I do use addon domains lol. I hope that's fine.
  • 2Take22Take2 UK
    edited September 2013
    Sorry if I'm being a bit slow here @ron, just want to get it clear in my head.

    Do you mean, create new a domain on your hosting account and deleting it (and recreating it) until you land a different IP, if necessary?
  • @2Take2 I guess he's talking about hostgator mechanism which is not possible in all other normal hosts (mostly WHMCS) from my understanding. 
  • ronron SERLists.com
    edited September 2013
    @2Take2 yes, that is exactly what I mean. For example, I may have more than one website in a niche, so I just make sure that they don't have the exact same IP. I do this not just for a relaunch, but for similar sites as well.
  • @ron What about if I take the current one down and then launch the new one, would that be a red flag as well?

    Thank you.
  • ronron SERLists.com
    edited September 2013
    Did you flush the cache with new stuff? If you did, then you can do it right away. At least, that's how I do it just to be cautious. Not saying that you just can't bang up a new one with the same material without flushing cache - it's just that I have never done it out of fear of shooting myself in the foot. It takes about 2 weeks to flush the old stuff out.
  • @ron What cache are we talking about here? Mine own or...how? Because as I told I'm on a shared host, and not hostgator. Maybe you're talking about some functions at hostgator? 2 weeks for like what? I'm not getting you completely here.

    Pardon my foolishness hehe.
  • ronron SERLists.com
    I just sent you a PM to save some time here. I am talking about Google's cache (snapshot) of your website content.
  • @ron Oh, I do certainly know about it. Haha, so tensed that I even confused simple things as these.

    Thanks a lot. I'll read your PM in brief in morning and shoot questions if have any doubt, although there's none from the initial skim read.

    Thanks!
  • Pratik this is what I did when I was caught, ti worked. All you need to do is buy an external IP address and point that at your new domain so they have different IPs.

    And if youre on dynamic IP address for your DSL connection, disconnect and get a new IP, clear your browser cookies, then create a new Google account (different phone number, buy a SIM).  Add Google Webmaster Tools to it again, don't use the same account.
  • @spunko2010 May I ask what host do you use so they provide a dedicated IP? And I do not bother linking or use Google tools with my scratch off niche sites as I stay away from risking it. I just use piwik (self installed) for tracking.
  • Still need help. Most hosts I found, like hostgator, hawkhost, mostly all now requires SSL certificate and proper validation for dedicated IP. So I could really use anyone's advise here.

    Thank you.
  • It takes 45 days before a link is taken into account. 

    So, if there is a real drop now, you should check which links you ve done 45 days ago. 

    If you have done your first submission 2 weeks ago, i am also convinced you are not penalized
  • @bloupbloup No actually the site is around more than 60 days old. So you can say I started building links some 55 days ago or so.
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    @Pratik - Having looked at all the new info here i would agree with Ron that the problem is link loss.

    Increase the links and rankings will improve within a month or two, i would almost guarantee that.

    Shared IP's and all that stuff is in my experience simply not true. All my own sites are on shared hosting, some hosting accounts have 50+ sites on them, it's never caused me a problem.

    I've tried in the past changing IP's for sites in case that is the problem and it never made any difference to the rankings at all.

    I also don't believe that it's 45 days before a link is taken into account, the proof of this for me was when i started using SER and saw improvements within 2 weeks, also if that was true, on a new site it would be a minimum of 45 days before any rankings were achieved, again my results show otherwise.

    Just my opinion for what it's worth.
  • Pratik, 
    I agree with Gooner 
    I know you have a peak at some point when you have your links on forums homepages and other websites homepages. 
    At one point when content is added to those kind of website, your links go on the second page and you lose Google juice.

    There is a place where you can see it. If you subscribe to majestic seo, they show you links that have been lost and they call it "deleted links". 

    You have described, a ranking unstability and it is really typical of a website with few links. When you have enough inbound links, you can be one day at 200 visitrs and the day after at 100. When you will get more links you will see traffic trend will be much more stable.
  • @Pratik I'd agree with @gooner and say I really don't think the hosting / IP address is the issue.  I have sites on the same IP address / hosting account that have #1 rankings and also sites that have been penalised.  Google and the rest really can't penalise sites unlucky enough to have "bad neighbours"
  • So I was unable to recover the site, both. So I'll be starting new ones shortly.

    Apart from that, I also wanted to mention that I used "nullrefer.com" to hide the referrers to affiliate links. And I saw Google malware report on nullrefer.com:


    Now, Google flags all sites that nullrefer has been linked too, so if some other site was linking to it, it'd flag it too. However, last report was of August 24, and my niche site went down somewhere around September 11.

    So asking all experts out here @ron @2Take2 @Tim89 and all others, is it possible it was flagged like this? If it seems like a possibility, I won't do same mistake again.

    Thank you.
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    Sorry bit late but.. I use vps.net.  Worth paying for 1-3 very good servers and then having loads of sites on them,  each with different IPs.

  • @pratik if they are flagging nullreferrer, then remove it from one of your sites, nofollow external affiliate links, and leave the site as it is to see if it comes back.
  • edited October 2013
    @spunko2010 Thanks, I'd check it in near future!

    @splendour Thanks, I appreciate the advice. However, at this stage, I'm not sure if the penalty is coming through nullrefer.com but it someone indicates a strong hint that this maybe very reason because how come my BOTH niche sites got penalized at SAME time? I guess it won't hurt to try what you're mentioning. Let me see.

    But if so is the case, I'd then advise no one to use those standard ref hider sites as most would be one or the other time penalized or flagged for malware due to obvious reasons by Google I guess.

    I'd be still interested to hear what sir @ron would think about this.

    Thanks!
  • Btw, I always nofollow external links, that's something I've learned over the years.
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    @pratik - Is it a wordpress site? If so, just use pretty link plugin or similar for affiliate links.
  • @gooner No it's a squeeze page unfortunately.
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    @pratik - ah ok.

    This doesn't help with current site, but for future sites you might consider building squeeze pages with Wordpress also. Then you get to use such plugins and have all the added SEO benefits too.

    Wordpress always outranks html in every test i have every performed.
  • @gooner But my competition level doesn't need WP site. Moreover I don't have any other content for such sites to put to, so a static does a job well. I'm not fan of much database related work unless I really have to do it lol. :P
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    @pratik - Your choice of course, split test a wordpress squeeze page against a html and i think you might change your opinion :P hehe
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited October 2013
    @Pratik .. I don't understand your last post. If your competition are not using WP then you will do well to use it, it gives a big boost above non-WP sites. For example, I have just entered a new niche where the number 1 website for loads of keywords is a single page .info domain... that looks like it was built in Frontpage in 2005... It is really bad. I have done no SEO work for my new Wordpress site and it's already ranking very well. WIth some SEO work I expect to beat it easily in 1-4 weeks.

    You can have a single page Wordpress site. You can use automated installer on most hosts. You click a button and login. No DB work, if it's a one page site it will never crash! You get major boost from using it, I suggest trying it, will only take 1-2 hours at most to change I would think?

    You can then use loads of plugins which will boost a 1-page site, or a 1000-page site.  EG W3 Total Cache, WP SEO, etc.
  • @spunko2010 You're right but for me, I can make my squeeze pages look good, do as I want. I believe I cannot get that flexibility with Wordpress.My squeeze pages are that good that it gives a click on download button (CPA) a conversion rate of easily 65-70% and above! Now how good it can get? I cannot get that with a plain boring WP site with no related theme or such. I have no time usually all day to do theming and all. So I've a nice base layout of a niche site ready to be used on all projects which I can easily push out with little to medium work rather than going on WP. But yes, the sites which I plan to have many articles, like a health niche site for example, I'd have a WordPress blog there and it is nice indeed for that purpose.
  • I'm coming to learn about Google's new update rollout called "Hummingbird" about which they announced on 26th September. They claimed it was running through/since past 30 days from that date. Could it also explain somehow linking to penalty? However, I now realize anchor text slap might have played a major role.
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited October 2013
    You wot m8. Haven't heard of this hummingbird before :o Just googled it, it's already implemented apparently?

    "For example Hummingbird will more greatly consider question words like “how” “why”, “where” and “when” in search phrases, in addition to content keywords. Hence Hummingbird moves the emphasis of search from “results” to “answers”."

    This sounds like it's more of an internal analysis of what people click on via Google, on different devices, i.e. they may shake up results for differente platforms. Doesn't sound like a new fandangled blackhat filter or anything, thankfully.

    Just to add, i HATE the way Google still ignores lots of search terms, it's infuriating having to use exact match all the term. Case in point search for "Land for sale" it comes up with the same results as if you search for property for sale, houses for sale, etc. Stupid.  So we can assume it's a load of b*llocks like everything else they say.
  • @spunko2010 Sounds cool. But I've seen some people comment on it. Could be penguin 2.1 too but considering it was just announced recently, I don't seem to see that possibility. But my another niche site which I mentioned definitely got hit by Penguin 2.1. It was an abandoned project and wasn't making me anything, anyway.
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited October 2013
    @Pratik but Google have confirmed it's already rolled out. And we can safely assume there would be 10-20 threads on here or other SEO forums like WF, BHW about a total collapse in ranks like there was with previous Penguins. This one hasn't measured on the radar , at least I never even heard of it til now? Not that that is a barometer of anything :D

    I am hoping the next Penguin-style update is after Christmas, that's all :D
  • @spunko2010 Haha I get your point about Christmas, you don't want something ruin that!

    Guess we need to pierce in even more to see where we lacked. Have any of your sites hit penalty zone?
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited October 2013
    @Pratik. I started with 1 site and it got slapped hard by Penguin 2.0, I think I was one of the worst hit. So I spawned 5 more, so far 4 of them are ranking well. I gave up on 1, it never ranked/got crawled properly and I think as @ron said in another thread it was due to previous black marks on its history. Or just bad SEO on my part, no idea. The original slapped site is still doing OK but cannot be ranked on specific keywords at all now. Google must retain a LOT of data ;)

    Since Penguin 2.0 nothing has been hit. By the time Penguin 3.0 appears I'm hoping to have sufficiently spread the risk enough by having 10+ websites. So in short, no.

    Also, I have not been actrive in SEO that long but I'm sure I read Google rolled out one of their major updates about 5 days before CHristmas once. Arseholes ;)
  • @spunko2010 Agree with it haha!

    I'm also thinking to create at least 5 more niche sites by end of this year to establish a sufficient income. My 2 niche sites going down on September 11 snatched the nice earnings I just started to earn back then. Sucks.
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited October 2013
    @Pratik Whenever I feel demotivated (like I did in June when Penguin 2.0 halved my earnings overnight or when Google didnt rank my other site) I go on ahrefs.com and do some analysis on specific niches and laugh to myself how pathetic Cutts/Google et al are at stopping blackhat spam, and how easy it is to rank in a lot of cases. I suggest you try it :)  It's not cheap but a great tool. And just rmemeber if/when you are caught don't take it personally and just rinse and repeat.
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    Also this thread has really good advice and you can see the results still in Google (need to login):

    http://www.wickedfire.com/education-center/175669-blue-hat-seo-contest-recap-what-i-did-where-got-me.html
  • edited October 2013
    @spunko2010 what backlinks strat are you using on your sites ranking well
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    @rodol just using the same that @ron and others have said, with SERengines + a few indexification services to get the backlinks indexed. Nothing special.
  • @spunko2010, care to share how do you use SEREngines? Do you use it just to build tier 1 or use it like the multiple tiers for each backlink?
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    @Pratik I will post in the other thread for Penguin 2.1 shortly.
  • @spunko2010 Alright, thanks. Will be looking forward to seeing to it.
  • spunko2010spunko2010 Isle of Man
    edited October 2013
    OK I will post here since it migth not be relevant there.

    I just setup new project and use SEREngines only, select all options, and send between 15 and 25 verifieds to it. Once it's finished I wait 1-2 days then build normal T2 and T3 links using normal SER settings.

    Then in about 3 weeks I check (have a calendar of dates to not forget) to see where it is in the SERPS. Normally it's within first page for medium-competition by this point, or at least top 20 spots.

    If it's in top 7 I do nothing, just wait.

    If it's outside of top 7 I spam it with nearly all options ticked, up to 100  (-/+30) a day. I keep checking it to monitor movement every day.

    Sometimes I write the T1 stuff manually but most times its spun. One thing I don't do is point loads of links to a good M$ straight away, it does work short-term but not sure about long term.
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