Regarding silos I still don;t see, why is it better to have 5/10 pages about a topic, rather than just one? the basic premise as i see it is that each page of a silo 'charges up' the kw you want to rank for, but why is it a case of 'the more the merrier' other than that more content = better?
Added to that how do you know its your ;l33t silo skillz and not just by dint of having more content that 'juices up' the main kw? ie the raindance theory.
@peterparker - I'm no expert, but in theory, silos work for at least 2 reasons;
1 - Thematic relevance - The more pages you have about a topic, the more relevance you can essentially manufacture to help you rank for your target keyword/s. Google is all about relevance.
2 - Effective flow of link juice (PR) through the site to the pages that you want to rank.
Also, to answer your question about siloing being like tiered link building, I would say that there are some similarities, but it is more like a tiered structure of internal links/pages within your site (with a linkwheel/mesh at the bottom of each tier).
@johndee - I could test it, but i don't see the need to change a formula that works. Or to spend twice as long building a site by silo'ing it which may or may not yield better results, but will definitely decrease user experience.
So i repeat the question to all you silo addicts... Can anyone give me a keyword that is silo dominated on page one please?
Hey gooner,
sorry man, I can't give you proof you're asking for... I'm trying to
figure it out myself! lol (maybe that dismisses me from the "silo addict" group??? )
BUT...
it does seem to make sense (to me) that building a well structured
site, with "themed content'' grouped together (call it a silo or just a
well thought-out site plan with appropriate categories), may very well
help - and certainly can't hurt.
For me, the "silo" concept
helps to conceptualize a good way of organizing content that *should*
help both search engines know what the site is about and give it added authority, and users to find what they're looking for (note that I have not yet tried
removing the Parent Pages from the site nav).
I can't say I've had enough experience with it to definitively say it works for me (unfortunately, I can't say that for any particular thing yet, dammit! lol...), but now that I've worked it out in my head and in WP, I don't find it any more difficult to set up a site using it that not using it. Just a personal preference I guess.
@mixiken - Thanks for the reply. i 100% agree the theory is very good and it should work, i'm just wondering if anyone has examples where it really does work.
Building a site themed in a relevant/structured way is good practice for any site. I'm just curious if limiting or channeling the link juice does actually give better results than not bothering.
Because it is a lot of extra work to get that done correctly. I'm curious it it's worth it.
Where it makes the most sense is when you have multiple product lines to sell. I just don't think it works well (for visitors) for a single product or line of products that would logically fit in one silo.
OK @gooner, so you want an example. I will give you the perfect example: TopTenReviews
These guys are so silo'd up they could shoot ballistic missles out of those things. Check it out. And they sure know how to use subdomains in their silo strategy. I would say they are the best example that I have seen.
Just look at their various categories and spot check their rankings. You'll see. It's not all about silo - they do have a lot of authority. But when you look at how they do it, it has 'silo' all over it.
^that kind of salts the test as you cant scientifically say what causes what can you? youtuber might have good 'silos' but im sure the bajjillions of links it has dont hurt either
only a good honest to goodness splittest will untangle it or as close to you could find such in the wild- two sites both identical, one silioed, one not.
Siloing is not one of my favorite things. You just don't get to put things where you want.
It's the whole chicken or the egg with somebody like TopTenReviews. But what I find interesting is that it took a lot of work to do it that way, so why did they do it? I'm willing to bet they got a hold of Bruce Clay to take it to the next level. I think he is the most highly regarded SEO consultant on the planet earth. This guy consults the Fortune 500. So why is he telling everybody to do this?
When you get into the serious leagues like that guy, he probably has hundreds of actual case studies that show it works without reservation. So while we're worrying about a split test, he probably sorted it all out 5 years ago. This isn't the same thing where some guy on warriors forum says something controversial, and then there's debate and split tests on whether that thing worked. This is the #1 dude in SEO that's doing the talking.
I know, I still hate silos after saying all of that, but I still will do them. Not on every website. But definitely on the ones I care about.
Nobody wants to say anything about linkbuilding on siloining... I think its the proof, that linkbuilding is the key in silos. You may know how to build silo, but if youd ont know how to link it, you have nothing. Am i right?
It's all about the structure. You actually are taking advantage of the search engines structured approach of cataloging a website, just like a library. These layers of menu that you stick in there create additional sign posts of what your website is actually about.
Once you have that in place, the links you build carry a lot more weight. It's really because of your website structure.
Hi guys been doing more research on silo's have you guys considered doing it on a one page theme?
Your hardest keyword at the top then it links to the next hardest keyword and so on then the last part of the page links back to the start of the page. Thus keeping all the link juice on one page with all the keywords your going for.
All the juice from the top will go throughout the multiple one page parts ie pages and the plus side it would look good as well
Hi guys so I am still trying to get my head around this silo stuff I have attached a website diagram, instead of the usual silo structure. Every website I have been on bar a few always have images on the homepage with links to other parts of their site ie the parent pages. I have read and read and other people have said to have no links from the homepage to the parent pages,but you can get away with it from the navbar but that's it.
I wondered if the site will not be as effective if you have links to your parent pages through images and text links on the home page?
Also I have read that you should have the parent page links to the child and the home page then the child links down to another child then the last child links back to the parent page and the home page, is this right?
Here is a link to Alex Beckers silo structure for one of his sites and it is doing the same thing.
What I find weird is that the home page is not linking to any parent page apart from the navbar, which I think would make the site not as easy to move around in.
2Take2 "Based on how nigh on impossible it is to navigate and how terrible the
user experience is, I'd say that wikipedia is most probably siloed too"
Yep it is. And it ranks for more keywords than any other site in the world. So proof is in the pudding. But the problem is wiki's link profile is rediculous and with GSA/MS/SeNuke/ETC constantly building even more "random URL's" to wikipedia we are just as lost as before the question was asked :P
@Judderman the second part of the diagram Bristol nightclub tickets is on another page also the third part of the diagram Oceana nightclub tickets is on another page as well, you click on the parent's page Bristol Oceana nightclub tickets. So there isn't 2 h1's
Will the site not be as effective if you have links to your parent pages through images and text links on the home page?
I think I may have worded my questions wrong so I will try again
1. Will it be ok to have 3-5 pictures with H1 Titles and img alt with the keywords linking to my parent pages from the homepage.
2. The way I am going to link the parents and children together is this ok: parent page links to the child and the home page then the child links
down to another child then the last child links back to the parent page
and the home page?
Great reading, some of the most usefull threads that i've read recently but there is one subject that nobody discussed. What if the homepage is ranking for the main keyword, thus making it the silo parent. Would we have to link to it contextually from child pages? Or just setting a home button in the header will take care of that? Or it would be a better option to change the name of the button from "Home" to "Keyword"?
You always contextually link to the silo head and/or homepage from child pages. That is Onpage Optimization 101.
The statement you made bothered me about a homepage ranking does not "make it the silo parent". It already is the homepage, and it already is the parent.
This is some great stuff I'm reading. I'm starting a new site and would love to silo it but I'm worried about over optimization after reading a few things.
Jurky3fo posted this image from Yukon (Yukon appears to be quite an authority on silo architecture) on the warrior forum:
I also seen this on the warrior forum by a member called affiliate-script who appears to be clued in too, he suggested this structure for the keyword TOEIC:
He also suggested this as an example using acai berry: SILOS
Acai Berry Weight Loss
Acai Berry Pills
Acai Berry Side Effects
Acai Berry Benefits
Acai Berry Diet
Acai Berry Detox
Acai Berry Cleanse
etc.
Then have level 3 articles for each silo
So then you'd get something like:
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-weight-loss/acai-berry-weight-loss-pills/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-weight-loss/acai-berry-supplement/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-weight-loss/acai-berry-diet
etc.
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-pills/acai-berry-cleanse-pills/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-pills/acai-berry-pills-benefits/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-pills/acai-berries-weight-loss/
etc.
And i also read that you should put no more than 75 articles per silo. OK, so good so far. This would be great if this was ok, but here's my problem.
Taking the above Yukon example, the silo is called "stop dog barking" Then the supporting articles are stop dog barking in crate, stop dog barking at night etc.. So the stop dog barking at night article could potentially have this in it. Silo: stop dog barking Article url: domain-name/stop-dog-barking/stop dog barking at night H1 Title: stop dog barking at night Slug: stop-dog-barking-at-night Meta will possibly contain the keyword too. Will probably be in an image and mentioned at least once more in the article,
This keyword is three words long, using the above that's mentioned eight times, To keep this keyword from reaching over a density of 1%, we would need to write an article 2400 words long. Even stripping the keyword out of the few above, we're still looking at a very large article.
Now, if we stick with the examples above, and use the silo method of having articles that are related in the sidebar, even saying twenty articles, we have the keyword on the page twenty seven times!
The article url is also mentioning the keyword twice, looking severely over optimized. Am i the only one who sees a problem with this?
I wish it wasn't a problem, as the new site I'm starting uses the keyword in most of it's categories too. The only way I see of getting round this is by noindexfollow the category page. Anybody set me right on this please.
My opinion and i'm sure others will say different is that navigation menu's/sidebars etc are NOT counted in terms of over-optimization. The Google bot is not retarded, it knows a navigation menu and it knows what is main content.
I have many sites with "over optimized sidebars", it's never done me any harm.
Thanks for the reply Ron. Glad to hear that the sidebar and top level nav don't seem to be a problem. That was bothering me. Regards the url, especially the acai berry one, I'm sure that's got to be going into over op. It's in their three times.
I bought a partial match domain for my adsense site, in hindsight I regret it as I'm pretty much going to have my keyword in the url twice on all articles. I'll change the article slug to something related without mentioning my keyword. This should give me a little more wriggle room regards keyword density.
@dayker - I think you are over-thinking it, i rank partial matches all day long with the keyword in the url twice (again others will probably disagree).
A lot of people talk but i believe 100% in testing and not relying on theory and based on my test results i would bet your partial match ranks just fine provided you get the other SEO elements right.
A very enjoyable read. Thanks to all those who chimed in. I have very little to add except that @gooner
I have seen time and time again that law firms are using siloing when they present their areas of practice. And I suspect (although I haven't got around to doing my due diligence) that you can use nofollow links in the main nav menu selectively with certain plugins. Also It's been stated that main nav bar links, like footer links carry less weight than in article links.
Comments
Added to that how do you know its your ;l33t silo skillz and not just by dint of having more content that 'juices up' the main kw? ie the raindance theory.
I havent followed the whole thread so maybe my quesitons have already been discussed
@gooner, no thats not pigheaded thats called being scieitific
1 - Thematic relevance - The more pages you have about a topic, the more relevance you can essentially manufacture to help you rank for your target keyword/s. Google is all about relevance.
2 - Effective flow of link juice (PR) through the site to the pages that you want to rank.
Also, to answer your question about siloing being like tiered link building, I would say that there are some similarities, but it is more like a tiered structure of internal links/pages within your site (with a linkwheel/mesh at the bottom of each tier).
So i repeat the question to all you silo addicts... Can anyone give me a keyword that is silo dominated on page one please?
BUT... it does seem to make sense (to me) that building a well structured site, with "themed content'' grouped together (call it a silo or just a well thought-out site plan with appropriate categories), may very well help - and certainly can't hurt.
For me, the "silo" concept helps to conceptualize a good way of organizing content that *should* help both search engines know what the site is about and give it added authority, and users to find what they're looking for (note that I have not yet tried removing the Parent Pages from the site nav).
I can't say I've had enough experience with it to definitively say it works for me (unfortunately, I can't say that for any particular thing yet, dammit! lol...), but now that I've worked it out in my head and in WP, I don't find it any more difficult to set up a site using it that not using it. Just a personal preference I guess.
Building a site themed in a relevant/structured way is good practice for any site. I'm just curious if limiting or channeling the link juice does actually give better results than not bothering.
Because it is a lot of extra work to get that done correctly. I'm curious it it's worth it.
Where it makes the most sense is when you have multiple product lines to sell. I just don't think it works well (for visitors) for a single product or line of products that would logically fit in one silo.
OK @gooner, so you want an example. I will give you the perfect example: TopTenReviews
These guys are so silo'd up they could shoot ballistic missles out of those things. Check it out. And they sure know how to use subdomains in their silo strategy. I would say they are the best example that I have seen.
Just look at their various categories and spot check their rankings. You'll see. It's not all about silo - they do have a lot of authority. But when you look at how they do it, it has 'silo' all over it.
I have attached a website diagram, instead of the usual silo structure.
Every website I have been on bar a few always have images on the homepage with links to other parts of their site ie the parent pages. I have read and read and other people have said to have no links from the homepage to the parent pages,but you can get away with it from the navbar but that's it.
I wondered if the site will not be as effective if you have links to your parent pages through images and text links on the home page?
Also I have read that you should have the parent page links to the child and the home page then the child links down to another child then the last child links back to the parent page and the home page, is this right?
Here is a link to Alex Beckers silo structure for one of his sites and it is doing the same thing.
http://shredsource.net/
What I find weird is that the home page is not linking to any parent page apart from the navbar, which I think would make the site not as easy to move around in.
Any thought would be great guys thanks
Seriously though. They don't share the link juice.
@JohnDee
Pretty sure WP has canonical by default in a base install anyway. That's why you don't see dup penalty issues. And why WordPress IS great for SEO.
Yep it is. And it ranks for more keywords than any other site in the world. So proof is in the pudding. But the problem is wiki's link profile is rediculous and with GSA/MS/SeNuke/ETC constantly building even more "random URL's" to wikipedia we are just as lost as before the question was asked :P
Will the site not be as effective if you have links to your parent pages through images and text links on the home page?
Thanks
1. Will it be ok to have 3-5 pictures with H1 Titles and img alt with the keywords linking to my parent pages from the homepage.
2. The way I am going to link the parents and children together is this ok: parent page links to the child and the home page then the child links down to another child then the last child links back to the parent page and the home page?
Thanks guys
Jurky3fo posted this image from Yukon (Yukon appears to be quite an authority on silo architecture) on the warrior forum:
I also seen this on the warrior forum by a member called affiliate-script who appears to be clued in too, he suggested this structure for the keyword TOEIC:
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Sample
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Score
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Registration
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Listening-Practice
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Schedule
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Vs-TOEFL
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Test-Dates
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Japan
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Listening
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Exams
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/TOEIC-Sample-Test
LearnEnglish.com/TOEIC/ETS-TOEIC
He also suggested this as an example using acai berry:
SILOS
Acai Berry Weight Loss
Acai Berry Pills
Acai Berry Side Effects
Acai Berry Benefits
Acai Berry Diet
Acai Berry Detox
Acai Berry Cleanse
etc.
Then have level 3 articles for each silo
So then you'd get something like:
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-weight-loss/acai-berry-weight-loss-pills/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-weight-loss/acai-berry-supplement/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-weight-loss/acai-berry-diet
etc.
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-pills/acai-berry-cleanse-pills/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-pills/acai-berry-pills-benefits/
acaiberrysite.com/acai-berry-pills/acai-berries-weight-loss/
etc.
And i also read that you should put no more than 75 articles per silo. OK, so good so far. This would be great if this was ok, but here's my problem.
Taking the above Yukon example, the silo is called "stop dog barking" Then the supporting articles are stop dog barking in crate, stop dog barking at night etc.. So the stop dog barking at night article could potentially have this in it.
Silo: stop dog barking
Article url: domain-name/stop-dog-barking/stop dog barking at night
H1 Title: stop dog barking at night
Slug: stop-dog-barking-at-night
Meta will possibly contain the keyword too.
Will probably be in an image and mentioned at least once more in the article,
This keyword is three words long, using the above that's mentioned eight times, To keep this keyword from reaching over a density of 1%, we would need to write an article 2400 words long. Even stripping the keyword out of the few above, we're still looking at a very large article.
Now, if we stick with the examples above, and use the silo method of having articles that are related in the sidebar, even saying twenty articles, we have the keyword on the page twenty seven times!
The article url is also mentioning the keyword twice, looking severely over optimized. Am i the only one who sees a problem with this?
I wish it wasn't a problem, as the new site I'm starting uses the keyword in most of it's categories too. The only way I see of getting round this is by noindexfollow the category page. Anybody set me right on this please.
I have many sites with "over optimized sidebars", it's never done me any harm.
I bought a partial match domain for my adsense site, in hindsight I regret it as I'm pretty much going to have my keyword in the url twice on all articles. I'll change the article slug to something related without mentioning my keyword. This should give me a little more wriggle room regards keyword density.
A lot of people talk but i believe 100% in testing and not relying on theory and based on my test results i would bet your partial match ranks just fine provided you get the other SEO elements right.
Test it and let us know how you do