Option A is the way I have done every site since the beginning of time. Worry about over optimization on anchor text or aggressive on-page optimization, not URL naming.
Remember that you rank pages, not domains. So the naming strategy for the homepage is the domain name - and that is a separate consideration from how you name an inner page. If, for example, it is important to have the word 'dog' in the domain name, and you need to have 'dog' in an inner page name, then that is just coincidence. It doesn't have any affect. I have dealt with this on so many websites I can't count, and never once had an issue over the years. They may overlap sometimes, but that doesn't matter.
I was thinking of implementing the silo structure in one of the electrical services websites.
There are basically 5 cities and three main services.(residential,commercial,industrial) Shall i build the silo structure like this: Services: residential commercial industrial
section1 residential electrical services in city1
residential electrical services in city2
residential electrical services in city3 residential electrical services
in city4 residential electrical services in city5
section2:
commercial electrical services in city1 commercial electrical services
in city2 commercial electrical services in city3 commercial electrical
services in city4 commercial electrical services in city5
section3
industrial electrical services in city1 industrial electrical services
in city2 industrial electrical services in city3 industrial electrical
services in city4 industrial electrical services in city5
or forget about the cities and concentrate on services only? If so how would you buld the silo structure?
cars111 - I'm no expert, so I'll be curious as you to hear the replies from those who really know this stuff. I can say that I've been building some siloed sites, and I didn't do it quite the way you did (at least the way I interpret your diagram).
It seems like you 'daisy-chained' your posts within a category (i.e. top tier post links to second tier post which links to 3rd tier post etc), which I do not do.
My understanding was that each post in a silo ONLY has one link in it, and that link goes to the top of the silo (the PAGE that goes in the nav bar). Everything within that particular silo category, from the PAGE in the nav bar to each POST within it, displays a sidebar that includes the POSTS that are part of that category.
Not sure if that makes sense OR if it's correct, but it's the way I understood it and the way I do it (with some positive results on some sites, others... still tryin'! lol)
Hi @mexiken, as far as I know, what you are describing is correct.
The only thing that I would say is that (although it's terrible for usability) you need to only show the home page in the main nav, and everything else in the various sidebars, as you described.
The reason for this, is that if you have all of the parent pages showing, your child silo posts will link back to all of them, instead of just linking back to the relevant one.
Anyway, hopefully @satans_apprentice will be along soon to give you a more definitive answer, as he's really hot on the whole silo thing.
2Take2 - What?!?! I got something right??? :P I guess there's a first time for everything lol
With that said though, I'm not sure I follow your suggestion
...if you have all of the parent pages showing, your child silo posts will
link back to all of them, instead of just linking back to the relevant
one.
On each of my posts, the only link I create goes to the top of the silo - the PAGE in the nav bar. So in cars111 diagram, all the posts in the left hand column (commodo av) would have one link going to the "commodo anti virus" page that is listed at the top under "Home Page Nav". None of the posts in that silo would have any links going to any of the nav PAGES for "avast", "avg" "norton" etc.
So I guess I'm not completely following what you're saying there (and I would like to, 'cause I've learned a lot from you, amongst many others here!)
Hi mexiken sorry, I'm not great at explaining things either lol
If your main nav bar looks like this (Home | Parent 1 | Parent 2 | Parent 3) and is global across your whole site, then, although you are linking back from your siloed child posts to the correct parent page (contextually, or in the sidebar), you will also be linking to the other parent pages via the hyperlink in Main Nav.
You can avoid this If you do everything via the sidebars and don't have all of the parent pages showing in the main nav, but as I said, it isn't great for the user.
They say a picture speaks a thousand words, and please don't mind my mad graphic design skills lol
This is the home page, a parent page, and one of the child pages of the previous parent page, and the text in black are all hyperlinks (the text in red is just the names of the pages for reference).
AFAIK it is the correct way to create the desired structure, but if anyone has any pointers I'd be glad to hear them too.
Got it. Very interesting, and thanks for that explanation and illustration 2Take2. I do see your point now (both), that that would funnel/focus links more effectively and regrettably be slightly less user-friendly. A decision to make for sure, but I actually think that might work OK in my niche, since I don't think anyone landing on any of my parent pages (or child pages), would necessarily want/need information from a different silo. I may have to give that a shot on my next site.
For cars111 or anyone else trying to get their head around siloing, the one detail I would like to point out in the above diagram by 2Take2 is that the child pages shown are only the child pages of that particular parent. In other words, on Parent Page 1, you'll see sidebar links to Parent Page 2, Parent Page 3 and Child Page 1a, Child Page 1b, Child page 1c, etc (all children of Parent 1, NOT of Parent 2). I hope that doesn't confuse things more!
Again, thanks for the clarity. I have a couple of new sites to build this week, so I'll give this a try and see how it goes.
@2Take2 Great. First time I understood this SILO thing well lol. However, is there any plugin for it? Because wouldn't the links added in "menu" section or "sidebar" would be same on all the pages?
@mexiken - You're welcome, always happy to help. I'm no expert though, and like you, I've only been learning about this since this thread originally started.
Also, thanks for the clarification regarding the child pages in my diagram - See? I'm also crap at explaining things with pictures as well! )
If you need anything else, just shout.
@Pratik - There are various different plugins already mentioned in the thread, but yes you would need the ability to create "custom sidebars" to use on different pages and posts (which is also the name of a WP plugin that would probably work for you).
Pratik - these are the plugins I've found that work for me: Category Posts Widget and Display Widgets. They're both free and in combination they allow me to do what we described. I know there have been others described on here too, one in particular that apparently is very powerful according to Ron (which is also free), but at this stage, I'm unable to grasp what all it is capable of doing. My 'simple solution' works, so until I manage to dig deeper to understand the other one and what I might be missing, I've got a set-up that works.
Or you can use Jetpack's function "Visibility" in the widget area with some category widget. The "Visibility" button allows to determine where you want a widget to show up.
Thanks for the feedback guys. @mexiken Makes perfect sense, I am not sure what daisy chaining is but I will look into it. The only problem I am having as a web designer I like the home page to look good , and without the navbar it is missing something! Will it really hinder the power of the silo with one. i was thinking to only have the navbar on the homepage and then remove the navbar on all other parent and child pages?
Does that sound like a plan?
Also the more I read other people have posted on other forums that wordpress is not very good for silos as it "leaks a lot" and that a static website would be better any thoughts?
cars111 - what I meant by 'daisy chain' is having, for example, Parent Page 1 link to Post 1a, Post 1a link to Post 1b, Post 1b link to Post 1c etc. So each POST links to the next POST. Rather than doing that, have EACH POST have one link back to the Parent PAGE and that's all.
Regarding your plan to have the nav bar on the home page, I think you'll be fine with that plan. Think of how many sites rank that way. If you do everything else right, you site should still be very well optimized and should have an advantage over other sites.
As far as wordpress not being good for SEO... that's a new one.
In my opinion, **IF** there are any drawbacks to it as far as silos go (and not even so sure that is a true statement), I think there are plenty of other offsetting benefits. However, if you're more comfortable with static html, no reason not to use that. Just a choice really.
-Next/previous links at end of post can break your silo structure
-You need a plugin to get meta description, sitemaps and breadcrumbs, and extra settings for no-indexing pages/posts you don't want indexed.
All of this can be fixed if you know how to edit the theme and install a plugin like Yoast SEO.
By the way I did everything expounded in this thread and saw increases overnight (!). One curious thing that I tested was that if I removed the "sibling posts sidebar" I had more linkjuice pointing to individual posts and ranked higher. Adding it back on made the rankings worse, even though "silo theory" says that a post should link to other pages in the same silo. That's for one site though.
@johndee - It's not accurate to say: Wordpress is "bad for SEO"
Wordpress is the best CMS for SEO even on default setup.
Not knocking silo'ing because i've never tried it but i believe some of the things mentioned are plain not true,
Example: The "Categories/archives/author pages create duplicate content" thing, i believe that's a total myth. All my Wordpress sites have that and most of them rank. How is that possible if they were getting a dup content penalty?
It's syndicated content as part of the site structure and i'm sure Google's algorithm knows that.
Like i said, i'm not knocking silo'ing as i'm sure if i did that i would get even better rankings, but the fact remains that even with the "bad for SEO" Wordpress default settings i have managed to rank hundreds of sites over several years.
It's an interesting discussion, and I can see the argument for and against using silos.
Personally, I'm kind of stuck in the middle. I like the concept of using both pages and posts, as it makes it very easy to build a site with a good solid structure, which is also really easy to add to, and subsequently build the site out over time.
I don't however like the idea of not having the parent categories in the main Nav bar, so I generally skip that, although I guess it could be ok not to have them for, say, an informational type site.
I can see @gooner 's point about google probably not paying attention to dupe content that is delivered via Categories/archives/author pages, and what he's saying makes a lot of sense.
However, even when using the silo structure, I've still had problems with archives getting indexed, so l just add a noindex tag to all of them and a canonical to all of my pages and posts, as I like to stay on the safe side. If you're using something like yoast seo it takes litterallly seconds anyway.
Just cause you can rank doesn't mean that your site was penalized for "duplicate content". Sure, there are millions of sites that do this (because they don't know and I figure too much of a hassle to change the exact default settings you talk about) but it doesn't mean it's good. And WP good for SEO, are you kidding me? Tags, categories, archives AND author pages indexable by default? Do a site search and see how quick Google indexes those. Those pages are worthless and if we are going by the theory put forth, diluting linkjuice on useless junk.
This isn't about your ability to rank (congrats if you do) but about using the internal structure to channel linkjuice. Why work hard? Why not set up a basic url structure and set up a quick post structure and rank without any (or few) external links?
@johndee - "Just cause you can rank doesn't mean that your site was penalized for "duplicate content".
That makes no sense to me whatsoever, my sites are apparently being penalised for dup content but are outranking sites that are not penalised for dup content? So either the penalty is so weak as to be of no consequence or it simply doesn't exist at all.
I agree with the theory of why silo'ing should work and perhaps it does, but until i see a site A v site B comparison that conclusively proves it, i'm not going to take it as fact.
I might be pig-headed or whatever, but i only buy into what i have seen evidence of with my own eyes.
Let's talk about real world page one rankings... Choose a niche, let's say health niche, page one for virtually every product name you can think of is dominated by non-silo'd sites. Why?
I would love someone to prove me wrong here, give me a keyword that is dominated by silo'd sites so i can shut up and start silo'ing like the rest of you )
Instead of "agreeing with the theory" why don't you test it out for yourself? There's more than enough info around here to see for yourself if it works or not.
Comments
I was thinking of implementing the silo structure in one of the electrical services websites.
There are basically 5 cities and three main services.(residential,commercial,industrial)
Shall i build the silo structure like this:
Services:
residential
commercial
industrial
section1
residential electrical services in city1
residential electrical services in city2
residential electrical services in city3
residential electrical services in city4
residential electrical services in city5
section2:
commercial electrical services in city1
commercial electrical services in city2
commercial electrical services in city3
commercial electrical services in city4
commercial electrical services in city5
section3
industrial electrical services in city1
industrial electrical services in city2
industrial electrical services in city3
industrial electrical services in city4
industrial electrical services in city5
or forget about the cities and concentrate on services only?
If so how would you buld the silo structure?
Thank you
It seems like you 'daisy-chained' your posts within a category (i.e. top tier post links to second tier post which links to 3rd tier post etc), which I do not do.
My understanding was that each post in a silo ONLY has one link in it, and that link goes to the top of the silo (the PAGE that goes in the nav bar). Everything within that particular silo category, from the PAGE in the nav bar to each POST within it, displays a sidebar that includes the POSTS that are part of that category.
Not sure if that makes sense OR if it's correct, but it's the way I understood it and the way I do it (with some positive results on some sites, others... still tryin'! lol)
The only thing that I would say is that (although it's terrible for usability) you need to only show the home page in the main nav, and everything else in the various sidebars, as you described.
The reason for this, is that if you have all of the parent pages showing, your child silo posts will link back to all of them, instead of just linking back to the relevant one.
Anyway, hopefully @satans_apprentice will be along soon to give you a more definitive answer, as he's really hot on the whole silo thing.
With that said though, I'm not sure I follow your suggestion
So I guess I'm not completely following what you're saying there (and I would like to, 'cause I've learned a lot from you, amongst many others here!)
If your main nav bar looks like this (Home | Parent 1 | Parent 2 | Parent 3) and is global across your whole site, then, although you are linking back from your siloed child posts to the correct parent page (contextually, or in the sidebar), you will also be linking to the other parent pages via the hyperlink in Main Nav.
You can avoid this If you do everything via the sidebars and don't have all of the parent pages showing in the main nav, but as I said, it isn't great for the user.
They say a picture speaks a thousand words, and please don't mind my mad graphic design skills lol
This is the home page, a parent page, and one of the child pages of the previous parent page, and the text in black are all hyperlinks (the text in red is just the names of the pages for reference).
AFAIK it is the correct way to create the desired structure, but if anyone has any pointers I'd be glad to hear them too.
For cars111 or anyone else trying to get their head around siloing, the one detail I would like to point out in the above diagram by 2Take2 is that the child pages shown are only the child pages of that particular parent. In other words, on Parent Page 1, you'll see sidebar links to Parent Page 2, Parent Page 3 and Child Page 1a, Child Page 1b, Child page 1c, etc (all children of Parent 1, NOT of Parent 2). I hope that doesn't confuse things more!
Again, thanks for the clarity. I have a couple of new sites to build this week, so I'll give this a try and see how it goes.
Also, thanks for the clarification regarding the child pages in my diagram - See? I'm also crap at explaining things with pictures as well!
If you need anything else, just shout.
@Pratik - There are various different plugins already mentioned in the thread, but yes you would need the ability to create "custom sidebars" to use on different pages and posts (which is also the name of a WP plugin that would probably work for you).
Regarding your plan to have the nav bar on the home page, I think you'll be fine with that plan. Think of how many sites rank that way. If you do everything else right, you site should still be very well optimized and should have an advantage over other sites.
As far as wordpress not being good for SEO... that's a new one.
In my opinion, **IF** there are any drawbacks to it as far as silos go (and not even so sure that is a true statement), I think there are plenty of other offsetting benefits. However, if you're more comfortable with static html, no reason not to use that. Just a choice really.
Wordpress is the best CMS for SEO even on default setup.
Not knocking silo'ing because i've never tried it but i believe some of the things mentioned are plain not true,
Example: The "Categories/archives/author pages create duplicate content" thing, i believe that's a total myth. All my Wordpress sites have that and most of them rank. How is that possible if they were getting a dup content penalty?
It's syndicated content as part of the site structure and i'm sure Google's algorithm knows that.
Like i said, i'm not knocking silo'ing as i'm sure if i did that i would get even better rankings, but the fact remains that even with the "bad for SEO" Wordpress default settings i have managed to rank hundreds of sites over several years.
I am really curious to see the results
Personally, I'm kind of stuck in the middle. I like the concept of using both pages and posts, as it makes it very easy to build a site with a good solid structure, which is also really easy to add to, and subsequently build the site out over time.
I don't however like the idea of not having the parent categories in the main Nav bar, so I generally skip that, although I guess it could be ok not to have them for, say, an informational type site.
I can see @gooner 's point about google probably not paying attention to dupe content that is delivered via Categories/archives/author pages, and what he's saying makes a lot of sense.
However, even when using the silo structure, I've still had problems with archives getting indexed, so l just add a noindex tag to all of them and a canonical to all of my pages and posts, as I like to stay on the safe side. If you're using something like yoast seo it takes litterallly seconds anyway.
That makes no sense to me whatsoever, my sites are apparently being penalised for dup content but are outranking sites that are not penalised for dup content? So either the penalty is so weak as to be of no consequence or it simply doesn't exist at all.
I agree with the theory of why silo'ing should work and perhaps it does, but until i see a site A v site B comparison that conclusively proves it, i'm not going to take it as fact.
I might be pig-headed or whatever, but i only buy into what i have seen evidence of with my own eyes.
Let's talk about real world page one rankings... Choose a niche, let's say health niche, page one for virtually every product name you can think of is dominated by non-silo'd sites. Why?
I would love someone to prove me wrong here, give me a keyword that is dominated by silo'd sites so i can shut up and start silo'ing like the rest of you