Help...Every engine seems to penalize money site except web2
So it seems that any time i point anything except w2 to my money site i get a bastard penalty after 3 weeks or so when things start indexing.
It seems to correlate pretty exactly with the new links that are indexing as i check with sb indexing daily and also check rank checker religiously as we all do :P.
As soon as the links start indexing down go the rankings! And dancing doesnt seem to exist for me now, once they start falling they keep falling into oblivion
.
Now i know web 2 are safe cos i made a site using only web 2 and indexing and left it for over a month and it was still good. prob 2 months or more now. Trouble was there was diminishing returns by making more and more w2 so ranking just stayed jammed on 2nd page.
Ive made a new one with gsa, no pr filter and w2 and now thats tanking. The only two things i can think is it could be either the content- since i used WAC. Can anyone attest using WAC/ACW or one of those tools successfully on money site while keeping rankings? Wanna know what i can rule out (tho nothing can be ruled out confidently till you splittest yourself want to maybe get a better idea). Other thing could be not having pr filter on- but on the wsite with only w2 i didnt use so no pr filter and no problem with rankings then so that seems to rule that out- maybe its the engines themselves then? i made sure to have profiles unticked in the gsa project and simialr junk platforms like guestbook tbs etc.
Thing is i did another site following oz' guide using pr3+ only but at the time i didnt know not to untick profiles in gsa since i didnt know those engines which werent profiles still make mostly profiles. so that one got penalized and maybe could of been cos of that.
I am thinking maybe the only way to know the safe ones is make a domain for EVERY ENGINE of GSA and jsut use only one for each and leave them for over a month and see which ones stay and which get penalized. That would be a big job so i was hoping that maybe others could save me some time and tell which engines are safe for them with GSA or maybe they could see from what i wrote what might be causing me the consistent penalties.
On that site where i used only w2 and the rankings stuck ive done GSA underneath as second tier now but i dont know if the lack of diversity up top will keep rankings stuck since it would still only b w2 up top. Waiting to find out on that.
Thoughts?
It seems to correlate pretty exactly with the new links that are indexing as i check with sb indexing daily and also check rank checker religiously as we all do :P.
As soon as the links start indexing down go the rankings! And dancing doesnt seem to exist for me now, once they start falling they keep falling into oblivion
.Now i know web 2 are safe cos i made a site using only web 2 and indexing and left it for over a month and it was still good. prob 2 months or more now. Trouble was there was diminishing returns by making more and more w2 so ranking just stayed jammed on 2nd page.
Ive made a new one with gsa, no pr filter and w2 and now thats tanking. The only two things i can think is it could be either the content- since i used WAC. Can anyone attest using WAC/ACW or one of those tools successfully on money site while keeping rankings? Wanna know what i can rule out (tho nothing can be ruled out confidently till you splittest yourself want to maybe get a better idea). Other thing could be not having pr filter on- but on the wsite with only w2 i didnt use so no pr filter and no problem with rankings then so that seems to rule that out- maybe its the engines themselves then? i made sure to have profiles unticked in the gsa project and simialr junk platforms like guestbook tbs etc.
Thing is i did another site following oz' guide using pr3+ only but at the time i didnt know not to untick profiles in gsa since i didnt know those engines which werent profiles still make mostly profiles. so that one got penalized and maybe could of been cos of that.
I am thinking maybe the only way to know the safe ones is make a domain for EVERY ENGINE of GSA and jsut use only one for each and leave them for over a month and see which ones stay and which get penalized. That would be a big job so i was hoping that maybe others could save me some time and tell which engines are safe for them with GSA or maybe they could see from what i wrote what might be causing me the consistent penalties.
On that site where i used only w2 and the rankings stuck ive done GSA underneath as second tier now but i dont know if the lack of diversity up top will keep rankings stuck since it would still only b w2 up top. Waiting to find out on that.
Thoughts?
Comments
But i have used all social networks, articles and wiki's on T1/money sites and rankings have only increased.
I also use no PR filter at all. For content i use Article Builder for everything.
Some did dance though, are you 100% sure it's not dancing?
How long did you leave it before coming to the conclusion it's not a dance? and did you continue building links during that period?
Well it happened yesterday and i made the post today but the pessimist in me says it isnt a dance :P but that is based on previous experience of many other sites that HAVE tanked and this one showing the same trend. Id love for it not to be but ive had my hopes dashed so many times by G now I usually just expect the worst.
Good to know youve been using article builder, i presume its the same as WAC, just rearranging sentences from what the AB website says.
Guess I'll wait a bit longer but won't get my hopes up. I still wanna plan some different strategies in case things go tits up.
I have a couple of sites that were page one and were dropped to pages 2 - 5 with G updates. There are client sites so i can't just drop them so i continued building links and they have recovered slightly, page 2 now but they just refuse to go back to page one no matter what i do - I assume G has put some kind of black mark against them and that is there forever - But that's just a theory.
How are you distributing your anchor text?
How many money sites have you tested your theory on? just one?
Done tests on many domains.
As you guys say, since its a shot in the dark and no specific issue sprang to mind guess ill continue my testing of things in isolation
Testing in isolation i think is the important thing cos before i kept salting my tests by trying several thigns at once on same site : but now i try and keep things isolated.
If so maybe ill hold judgement for a while longer.
But even on optimized sites some still dance a little, but not over a long period... 3 - 4 days max intervals i would say.
The same wikis, social networks, etc that some people still think are ok to use are the same wikis, social networks, etc that people went running to, and continue running to disavow whenever their sites get hit with an update.
There was a google update a few days ago, a penguin refresh imo.. not bragging, but lots of people on BHW crying "My site got hit".. Not me.. my sites only increased in rankings... Why? Because i don't use these links.
Blog networks are the way to go.. Why? Because the links you get from these sites aren't on the list of disavowed links, and so aren't on google's radar. Combine these contextual links with with some web 2.0's and you're good to go.
You can churn and burn all you like, but it seems google is making a penguin refresh every 4 - 6 weeks now.. so that's how long you can expect your sites to last.
Me personally, i prefer the slow and steady race to the top, but that's just me. Heading on holdidays 2m, so won't be able to answer any replies, if you're looking for a safe blog network, then check out http://www.fightbackelite.com (aff link) http://www.fightbacknetworks.com (non aff link)
In reality if you do actually want to be safe, (or safer) build your own private blog network
But yes you are right, the safest option would be to build your own network. But at a cost of $xxxx or more on a yearly basis for a decent size network.
That's interesting about the networks of networks - Changes my perception a little bit, i might give them a try.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Edit - Just wanted to mention as well.. if you do end up going with it, i personally wouldn't go blasting the links you create with crappy links. If you look back to this video (
you'll see where he mentions going upstream to get "spammers".
I take this as meaning "If we find any page with a backlink profile containing x% of links from the list of links on our disavowed list, then we'll penalize that page", and either stop the flow of PR through those pages or pass the penalty on to the page(s) it links to"
Just my opinion, im sure there'll be many on here that won't agree for some reason or another, and im not expecting everyone to agree.. this is gsa ser forum after all, but just thought i'd mention what's working for me, and my views on "spam" as google loves to call it
With a blog network, you're posts are mostly always rolling on and off the homepage of the site it's on, meaning you'll always have a high percentage of your posts still on the high PR homepages, until it gets replaced by someone else's posts, but by then you have new posts on new high PR homepages, so long as you remain in the network. Of course, you can build high quality web 2.0 links to boost them further, but just thought id mention that as well, since with these high PR links, there's not really too much need for tiering, since you're getting your PR from these homepage links anyway - after all, the whole point of tiering is to boost PR.. but do you really need to tier when you've got actual high PR links pointing to your site? In my experience - no
Anyway, laters
The same wikis, social networks, etc that some people still think are ok to use are the same wikis, social networks, etc that people went running to, and continue running to disavow whenever their sites get hit with an update.
I totally agree with you regarding this theory. Me too I don't use blog comments, wikis and spam like that even for lower tiers.
Blog networks are the way to go.. Why? Because the links you get from these sites aren't on the list of disavowed links, and so aren't on google's radar. Combine these contextual links with with some web 2.0's and you're good to go.
Because people don't disavow the blog networks? Now you contradict with your own theory
I'm by no means a pro SEO, or an expert with SER, but here's my views on your OP;
It's obviously good to test, but I think that you're going completely down the wrong route by considering isolating platforms, and will only end up wasting time and resources.
If the goal is to build a link profile that looks natural (at least to google, anyway), then surely it would consist of lots of different platforms, all ranging from PR0 - PR9. I mean, people don't look at the domain PR or platform type when they link to you naturally, do they?
As you alluded to, even your 'Safe' high pr web2s could potentially cause you problems if that is all your link profile consists of (although I don't think that's your issue, here).
To me, it doesn't make sense for google to penalise platforms, as it would be a waste of resources, and we would just look for different ones to build links on anyway.
Also, how could G say "all links from <Insert Platform> are now going to be classed as spam", they can't, as not all websites that run on that platform are the same, and they would end up having to either, use up a massive amount of resources trying to isolate specific sites, or just penalise every site.
With regards to content - I think that it is safe to say that google doesn't know it's ass from its elbow, and as long as it considers your content to be unique, then there is no problem on that front, at least not for the time being.
In your shoes I'd probably start by pulling all of the sites in the top 10 in your niche apart, look at what they are doing, and try to run some tests to emulate (and improve upon) that. At the end of the day, google is just a robot, feed it what it wants and 9 times out of 10 it will reward you with better rankings.
Maybe start by looking at your competitors onpage seo and how optimised they are, what the norm is for keyword density, their titles, number of indexed pages, number of pages that they have indexed that relate to the target keyword, backlink profile, link velocity, domain age, any other sneaky tricks that they might be using, etc, etc.
I mean, you could save yourself hours of testing by just doing that alone, as they have already done some of the work for you by ranking in the first place.
Just my opinion though FWIW.
Hope it helps!
ppl keep telling me to analyze competitors but ive never figured out how to do it?
same sort of deal with ashrefs. could anyone help demystify this for me plz.
also im broke and cant affrod the extrotionate monthly costs they ask to upgradea adn wouldnt pay jsuch prices if i could so what is a more budget way to sovle the issue? does sb have anythign that would do the job in its plugins or something like that?
@peterparker - There are a lot of variables and it's hard to know what the problem could be, if i were you i would start with a new domain, let's say a product name (the health niche is very good for this type of site), just one homepage article and relevant contact/about pages etc.
Then try to rank that page using SER only, use one of the tiered systems people discuss on the forum. Review after a few months, you will learn what SER is capable of on it's own and you can also then experiment with other types of links to see what affect they have.
After one month of SER i have been able to rank most of my keywords for those types of sites in the top 50. I'll give it another month and see where the rankings are and then decide from there what needs to be done.
If you are short of cash and need some, i wouldn't recommend SEO as the way to go. Presumably you can build sites? So why don't you flip some sites? You can easily build a $1000-2000/month income doing that, which will give you some cash to play with and experiment with SEO/different sites etc.
I know that's not the answer you are looking for, but i have tried chasing cash before i really knew SEO and it didn't work out well for me. So i hope you understand why i am saying that to you.
Sites seem to be falling in my opinion right now for 1 of 2 things..
1. Your site has lost some juice/power
or
2. Google has noticed your linking profile and knocked you back a couple spots
Personally I don't think it's wise to stop building links all together (just kinda screams hey I was spamming), I just let SER run and see if it comes back after a few days/weeks if not I will take a little bit of time to examine some things and try to figure out what went wrong. However, 90% of my sites have came back better than ever.
Just keep testing different things, if it happens to more than one site try different things with those sites see which you can get to come back and which don't.
I've built my own personal private blog network it's pretty small right now only 40 er so sites with a PR of 2-6 (however page rank hasn't been updated on sites in what 5 months now?), but it seems to be the way to go because that's the one thing that has always seemed to work. If a site gets knocked back I just remove those links and wait awhile then re link to them and they usually will come back. I've only been using my network for my bigger authority sites or client sites. SER is great at making those links even more powerful, if I happen to trip something up using SER with those links like I said I just remove the links then relink to them on down the road.
My advice always be testing, if a site falls don't stop link building all together change your approach see if it comes back. Always be building new sites and always be testing new things!
@peterparker, no need for any fancy tools to carry out competitor analysis if you can't afford them, a simple spread sheet, some research, and a free account on majestic seo should give you enough information for most niches. The free SEO toolbar from SEO Book is also quite useful too.
Also, if you want to download your competitors backlinks then you can also get this done cheaply on fiverr, or possibly even make use of the free trail that some of these tools offer.
Not saying that it's the right way, or even the best way, but I normally just build a spreadsheet in excel for the main keyword, put the competitors in each row and fill the columns in with whatever metrics/information I deem necessary (some I get from SEO tools, and others you will have to look at the source code, or use advanced search operators in google to find).
With regards to using tools like majestic, ahrefs, or OSE, it's probably best just to pick one and play with it for a while, noting how the metrics change for different sites.
With regards to the metrics, just look on their blogs if you get stuck.
You think all links disavowed in the disavow tool are treated equally? So if i get link from a source like the Huffington Post and disavow that link, it means every other link that anybody receives from the Huffington Post is now regarded as a bad link in google's eyes? I don't think so..
What would make more sense though is if they said, "well any link from any domain that we receive xx% of requests to disavow, then we will consider this as a source of spam".
Now i don't know about you, but im pretty sure the list of links being disavowed from blog networks is a lot less than the list of links being disavowed from article marketing platforms and social network platforms that get spammed and disavowed daily.
Anyway, again each to their own, just thought it was funny that you think i'm contradicting myself.