Help me understand this, Pros!

markdoe830

My competitor is using a technique that is really outranking me. His sneaky URLs are floating all around the SERP and mine in hell. Now look at the URL: http://take5eats.com/?item=2376‎ When i put it in my browser, it is taking me to the real website page that is take5eats.com. But when i put this URL in Google and click from SERP, i am redirected to his money website page i.e http://www.pass4king.com/70-238.html. It means it has something to do with the Google redirect. The buffer page http://take5eats.com/?item=2376‎ is ranking well in Google. Is it cloaking, SAPE or something, please guide. Also, almost all his links and content are in the footer area, like it is injected without the will of webmaster. Moreover, all the navigation links of that page are disabled. Waiting for your reply! Thanks

SpecialOne

I am not a pro but he might be really hacked. Check this video which is pretty similar what you showed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkBpNZLyC58 

For what keywords does this buffer rank? I mean this buffer is about some ice cream and this hacker is selling some software for passing certification exams. Totally unrelated if you ask me. I think he really found some exploit in that WordPress theme or plugin and now he is injecting his content all around the web.

XXXX

Some time ago my site was hacked and it was the same behavior. I think @SpecialOne is right.

SpecialOne

Would like to add that it seems that take5eats.com is forwarding to pass4king.net which then redirects to pass4king.com. He is using that .net as protection for his hacking activities. Disabled all ahrefs.com and majestiseo,com bots on .net so he stays under the radar.

There is also his other website http://www.itsbeads.com/ which he is promoting http://take5eats.com/?node=3589

markdoe830

@specialone put "cheap pass4sure" in Google and you will find buffer websites floating all around the SERP. I believe buffer sites do not belong to him, he hired someone to perform that activity or used some service like SAPE. Funny thing is that redirect occurs only through SERP, not through browser. Total mind f***.

DonCorleone

this is called cloaking . Showing google spider something else and the human visitor something else .

markdoe830

i see...so Google will not show real website URLs in SERP even after redirect. They are ranking like for last 1 month. What could be the solution?

SpecialOne

@markdoe830 It seems that he is buying those links from somewhere. I though he is Wordpress hacker but he has links on ordinary HTML pages too. SAPE links looks differently because they are not surrounded with text and usually have simple anchor in sidebar or footer on PR homepage. They also are not cloaked as far as I know. 

I checked some pages and some of them are really blackhat. For example check this link source code: http://waterfallpublishinghouse.com/ There are like 50 hidden links for Ugg shoes. 

He seems buying these links from somewhere and then redirect to ---->pass4king.net---->pass4king.com

You have to find somehow where is he buying these links and imitate him. If you happen to find it please PM and let me know. I want to know the seller of these links too.

markdoe830

@SpecialOne i contacted 5 or 6 webmaster of these websites on which his links are placed and none of them replied me yet. It is very difficult to know the source from where he is getting these kind of links. Surely these links are working very well with medium or low competition keywords.

spunko2010

Payday Loan niche is full of sites that do this. I don't understand it myself (hope one of the pros like @ron can explain perhaps) - but it seems to work like this: Spam site1 > Site1 redirects to site2 > Site2 redirects to moneysite. What is the benefit of using that extra site in the middle? @markdoe830 be careful about contacting webmasters, It's bad enough outing someone's BH links when Fatt Cutts reads here (this URL shows up higher than his URL now in Google)... If you are going to out someone fine but I'd keep quiet about potentially getting his commission rescinded!

rodol

maybe this could be related, anyways its a good reading... http://blog.majesticseo.com/case-studies/how-black-hats-are-still-gaming-google-for-competitive-keywords-case-study/

ron

When I have done stuff like that, I have only gone one layer in the middle, not two.

I cannot say if two layers makes a difference. I believe the play is that this individual, either from testing or sheer luck, determined that you can pass linkjuice without the penalty if you use two layers. That essentially the second layer 'trapped' either the penalty, or prevented some spam signal on underneath layers from passing through to the moneysite.

It is an interesting concept. I wouldn't dismiss it at all. But if you test it, I would probably keep your mouth shut about it. I would make your notes, test, and move along, if you get my drift.

spunko2010

I'm considering giving it a go, but in a smaller niche. Let's say I register spunko2010.com and spam that, which then redirects to spunko2010.net - is a 301 redirect what I need here? I'm not sure how they manipulate the user-agent so that Google is treated differently.

spunko2010

Also if you're in the UK then you'll see a new contender in the payday loan niche today, right at the top. They appear to be sending massive links to feeder sites, in a similar sort of way. For example lu*xurylatex*.co.uk and simpa*ydayloans.co.uk (remove the *) .

JudderMan

@spunko2010 I'm going to be entering the pdl market soon, as I've been watching and planning various markets recently. I just want to see if I can get anywhere in it, for testing really. I've noticed a site at the top recently and if you ahrefs them, then their redirects, and look at the brand name (that isn't the domain name) then google that +pdl you'll see that there are many sites waiting in the wings  

Very interesting and makes SEO so much more fun when you manage to reverse engineer their skills. I play it very safe with client sites but with my own sites I am going to start something a little different. It's too easy for me to reverse engineer their sites so for people that are much brighter than me it must seem a bit lame. 

ron is right though and personally I think threads like this should be deleted or at least made private somehow.

spunko2010

I agree about being private. Maybe @sven can add a forum you see only when logged in? I've been considering PDL but i'd go long tail if I did, too many people watch this niche as a barometer for what works in blackhat and what doesn't - look at all the tweets that Fatt Cutts gets about it. It is too heavily watched on the short-tail KWs in my opinion.

JudderMan

Yeah true, I just fancy doing it for a test to be honest. I doubt it would make any money, just want to try some things out.

spunko2010

I'm giving it a go in my own niche (not PDL). Just bought 2 crap domains, going to 301 the first one to the second one then 301 that to my m$. Will report back.

RayBan

@spunko2010 - are there no restrictions in uk for advertising PDL services ? I thought that only real pdl companies can do that.

spunko2010

@RayBan not sure what you mean, but i'm not in PDL, so wouldn't know anyway.

JudderMan

@RayBan there are affiliate networks that deal with PDL companies, so affiliate marketers can get some £ without the hassle of setting up consumer credit licenses etc.

spunko2010

Oh, sorry yes I see now. Looks like they all use the same company for it. Although it appears even if you're an affiliate you are 'meant' to be registered with the FCA or whatever it's called nowadays.

JudderMan

Really? Ah ballz, I thought if you're just referring people then you don't need to? If you setup looking like a legit PDL company with slider/quote box then you would need to set up properly. I have a different plan.

spunko2010

You're also I think meant to be registered with the Data Protection thingamejig. However look at the number of PDL sites that obviously aren't + coupled with bogus/hidden WHOIS and you'd bevery unlucky to get called up on it. The affiliate company that is being 301'd to sh*t doesn't seem to care about the way that people generate links either? No wonder so many people want it regulated BTW, I said I would post updates for my niche (not going to out it). I have setup my tiered domains with custom 301 settings tonight (not going to share the ins and outs of it... yet) and will be starting spamming tomorrow. Will post an update in a week or so.

markdoe830

@spunko2010 are you following one layer or two layer protection strategy? And what about spam, will you blast both buffers or only first one only?

spunko2010

Hi mark, I am trying 2 layers. I am going to blast both layers - highest one with any old crap (probably off fiverr etc) and the one that (sometimes) points to M$ with SER fairly-spammy stuff (with filters). For anyone interested also, there is a new contender in the UK at number 2. I didn't see it ranking anywhere in first 5 pages yesterday. Is this you already @JudderMan ?

markdoe830

@spunko, what do you mean by custom 301 settings. I think that would be temporary redirect to douche G. Could you share that code or pm me?

spunko2010

I mean everyone else is 301'd, Google isn't. It is set via custom htaccess, you can Google it (ironically!) and there are plenty of examples, I have PM'd you mine

rodol

in my google i found 2:

(Just edited this, maybe those websites are from someone on this forum and i don't want to hurt their rankings or whatever)

markdoe830

rodol, spot on!

spunko2010

I have a question, only thing I'm not sure on. Let's say for this payday guy he has payday1.co.uk and 301s that to payday2.co.uk, which is where the user-agent detection is, and sends the user to paydayaffiliatewebsite.com (and Googlebot is kept on same site). How do they get payday1.co.uk to rank in Google - and not payday2.co.uk? If they block payday2.co.uk via robots.txt (which it doesnt appear they are...) then surely payday1.co.uk wouldn't rank either? I thought sending a load of spam links to payday1.co.uk (which 301s to payday2.co.uk) would result in payday2.co.uk appearing in the SERPS. But it never does, always payday1.co.uk appears. If you type in site:payday2.co.uk there are 0 results. Any ideas how that works?