@Heisenberg - I could be wrong, but I thought by disavowing links it was creating an opportunity for Google to take down networks.
Do you remember how all this went down? Is was all about the disavow tool. People were screaming at each other to not dare send in their links because everybody would get screwed in blog networks.
Somehow you made the leap from that - to now all links are bad that get disavowed. How are they bad? Those website owners didn't do anything wrong. They are exploited by people like us. It's a big leap to say that now all links - and by inference the websites they came from - are all spam. If our links are toxic, then so is 1/3 of the websites on this planet - because that's about how many have been scraped by people all over this planet for years. 30% 40% 50% - who the hell knows. All I know is that the number is in the billions.
There is no way Google is going to handle the problem that way. They will just devalue the links so the website owners aren't also hurt.
What patterns could you be worried about? Oh, I forgot - all 250 engines and platforms that we use are used by everyone all over the internet. Wow. That's one helluva footprint.
I honestly believe, like you, that they are looking for patterns - except I believe it is all about the high PR blog networks. That is how all this started in the first place. That's the 800 pound gorilla in the room, not spam. Get some spam and rank for a while. Get some high PR and the game changes. That's the criminal they want - not the petty stuff.
I think for everyone's sanity that they should get the hell out of Webmaster Tools. It's a joke - Clicky is way better anyway. Plus, all you guys are subjecting yourself to sadism. My life changed for the better when I got rid of GWT almost 2 years ago. Sticking your account in GWT is like lighting up a joint in a donut shop. Sorry for the American humor, but we always see our police in doughnut shops, lol.
@heisenberg - Well good night and god bless, i'm sure you'll be sorely missed. @ron - You did an awesome job of explaining that, hopefully it won't fall on deaf ears this time.
Im pretty sure I didn't say anything about blog networks but im writing this from my phone at the min and it's a pain to back over threads to see if I did.
Of course some links like blog network links were and are going to be disavowed in the future.. along with many legitimate sources too.. but it's all about how many times these links were disavowed or to put it another way, what percentage of the total number of disavowed links. I don't go around saying every link that gets disavowed is automatically a toxic link... of course that domain would have to reach a thresshold of a certain % of total disavowed links to be truly considered a known source of spam. And disavowed blog network links are not gonna show up at the same high percentages as disavowed gsa ser links simply because there are far far far less people using the sane blog networks (and disavowing them) than there are people disavowing ser made links
Yes you are right about it not being the sites getting spammed fault.. Google knows that - They're not penalzing those sites because like you said, it's not their fault that they're being spammed. But of course they're going to want to penalize the spammers.. and that's exactly what they are doing.
And let's just call that figure of total spammed / scraped links from the beginning of time 1/3 of all links out there for arguments sake and combine it with the so called defence of 250 plus platforms that gsa ser supports. It doesn't matter if gsa ser supported a million platforms. When the links get disavowed enough times, it doesn't matter what platform they're on since they're either gonna penalize you or they're gonna be devalued if you're lucky. And as far as the 1/3 of total links out there being spam lets say for arguments sake.. all the more reason to have an effective and working list of disavowed links in google's eyes.. against in their eyes they will see it as cleaning up the serps by removing sites that have gotten there by cheating / spamming, and replacing them with legitimate sites that havent.
And of course blog networks are high on their agenda but at least those links will never be disavowed to the same extent as ser links.. plus if you run your own pbn who's gonna disavow them then? I'm not saying there's not going to be an update targeting them, bur they're a much safer and more stable option than ser imo. But ye couldn't agree more.. no GWMT analytics.. nothing.
Google generally doesn't generally penalize entire websites. They penalize webpages so unless JohnDee disavowed his own links (uhm, no) or Google backlisted the entire website that is probably not the reason.
Their could be many reasons why he got slapped. Poorly spun content, links solely pointing to his site, obvious link schemes, too many exact math anchors, detection of paid links, blog networks, etc, etc.
PBN's are of course the best links, i have my own too. But it takes serious money to create a proper network and where do you suggest people find that money? How about by ranking sites with SER?
So why pass up on SER when there's a chance (yet to be proven) that all your domains will be penalised.
That's money on the table. And if the site flops so what? $10 new domain and let's roll the dice again. Times that by 100s of domains and that's serious money from using SER.
@sweeppicker of course - always something else.. never the possibility of it being as a result of the list of disavowed links no. Also I don't understand the rest of your argument.. I know they penalize pages and not entire websites with penguin.. but where do your links point? Pages duh! :P
@gooner it doesn't have to be a truly private blog network. I think I saw you mention you're a member at FBN* so you should know how cheap it can be to get these type links instead. * probably while I was waiting for you to make that one little mistake ive been waiting for so long for lol *
And my argument was never ever that ser doesn't work - my argument was that the disavowed list works. Sure you can churn and burn with ser if you want, but it seems like that net is closing.
@heisenberg: if you have anything positive to contribute here, do so. We have a good community here, and your personal attacks aren't helping. Since you believe that SER is a bad tool to use, you probably are wasting your time here. Just sit back and wait for the competition to crash and burn and cash in.
@heisenberg - Lol, that wasn't a serious comment mate. I was just winding you up.
For the record i'm not a member of FBN, i only use SER, PBN and web 2.0's.
I do hear your point but i just don't see it's feasible for Google to do what you are suggesting, mainly due to cost. They have share holders and there is no profit in stopping SEO/spam or whatever you want to call it. Plus, uncertainty and fear fits their business model well. Like "Don't trust SEO use Adwords instead".
@sweeppicker - I'm by no means an expert on Google penalties, when they happen i just reset and forget - Even for client sites. So, how likely do you think it is that these autoblogs came to the attention of Google by whatever means and they saw them linking out to JohnDee's site in an attempt to manipulate the rankings artificially or however they phrase it and as a result decided to penalise the whole domain?
It's the similarity of the autoblogs that could be an issue, it comes across as some kind of network in G's eyes maybe?
@Heisenberg. You have yet to prove it was due to the disavowed list. It's purely speculation. Honestly,I don't really care because I use GSA in a variety of ways and don't follow the herd. Plenty of folks here making money with GSA and will continue to do so. Carry on.
@Satans_Apprentice and who the fuck are you? You must be a genius or work for the NSA or some shit to have read my posts on other boards as well since I only use this username here.
gooner. Like Hesienberg, I'm speculating. LOL. I don't know for sure if that was the cause. I was only making a comment based on my own experience as I have lost many sites due to penalties, etc, over the past 10 years. One thing that's pretty safe to say though is Google knows his links are on those autoblogs and the fact they are de-indexed means they are low quality and that couldn't be a good signal. Whether that's the culprit to the rank drop I have no idea.
And yes, cleaning up link profiles is a major pain in the ass. That is why on my money sites I care about I usually use buffer sites, PBNs, and article marketing to pass juice with GSA.
Guys, this is exactly why people can't stand certain forums, like Warriors. A goddamn food fight in almost every thread. That's what makes this forum different, and way better in my humble opinion. That's why I am here, and not there.
And seriously (I am being dead serious), 99.9999% of all arguments are on things that can't be proven. Which pisses me off even more. What's next? Fighting over religion and aliens?
You are all bright dudes and make this forum a better place. Can you all please go to your corners, grab a nice beer, and watch some Olympics or something?
@Ron: I am sorry for hurting @heisenberg's feelings, although I'm not exactly sure why he is so upset. I was just commenting that there are a lot of members of this forum that make a lot of money with SER, and that it's probably a waste of time trying to change their minds.
Everybody was out of hand. It usually just takes a couple guys, and then there's more. Do you guys like hockey? That's how hockey works. A couple guys asking how each other's mother is doing during a game...
Anyway, I'm watching some MMA right now, so let me watch a real fight.
Comments
@ron - You did an awesome job of explaining that, hopefully it won't fall on deaf ears this time.
Of course some links like blog network links were and are going to be disavowed in the future.. along with many legitimate sources too.. but it's all about how many times these links were disavowed or to put it another way, what percentage of the total number of disavowed links. I don't go around saying every link that gets disavowed is automatically a toxic link... of course that domain would have to reach a thresshold of a certain % of total disavowed links to be truly considered a known source of spam. And disavowed blog network links are not gonna show up at the same high percentages as disavowed gsa ser links simply because there are far far far less people using the sane blog networks (and disavowing them) than there are people disavowing ser made links
Yes you are right about it not being the sites getting spammed fault.. Google knows that - They're not penalzing those sites because like you said, it's not their fault that they're being spammed. But of course they're going to want to penalize the spammers.. and that's exactly what they are doing.
And let's just call that figure of total spammed / scraped links from the beginning of time 1/3 of all links out there for arguments sake and combine it with the so called defence of 250 plus platforms that gsa ser supports. It doesn't matter if gsa ser supported a million platforms. When the links get disavowed enough times, it doesn't matter what platform they're on since they're either gonna penalize you or they're gonna be devalued if you're lucky. And as far as the 1/3 of total links out there being spam lets say for arguments sake.. all the more reason to have an effective and working list of disavowed links in google's eyes.. against in their eyes they will see it as cleaning up the serps by removing sites that have gotten there by cheating / spamming, and replacing them with legitimate sites that havent.
And of course blog networks are high on their agenda but at least those links will never be disavowed to the same extent as ser links.. plus if you run your own pbn who's gonna disavow them then? I'm not saying there's not going to be an update targeting them, bur they're a much safer and more stable option than ser imo. But ye couldn't agree more.. no GWMT analytics.. nothing.
So why pass up on SER when there's a chance (yet to be proven) that all your domains will be penalised.
That's money on the table. And if the site flops so what? $10 new domain and let's roll the dice again.
Times that by 100s of domains and that's serious money from using SER.
@gooner it doesn't have to be a truly private blog network. I think I saw you mention you're a member at FBN* so you should know how cheap it can be to get these type links instead. * probably while I was waiting for you to make that one little mistake ive been waiting for so long for lol *
And my argument was never ever that ser doesn't work - my argument was that the disavowed list works. Sure you can churn and burn with ser if you want, but it seems like that net is closing.
Anyway im off to bed
For the record i'm not a member of FBN, i only use SER, PBN and web 2.0's.
I do hear your point but i just don't see it's feasible for Google to do what you are suggesting, mainly due to cost. They have share holders and there is no profit in stopping SEO/spam or whatever you want to call it. Plus, uncertainty and fear fits their business model well. Like "Don't trust SEO use Adwords instead".
@sweeppicker - I'm by no means an expert on Google penalties, when they happen i just reset and forget - Even for client sites. So, how likely do you think it is that these autoblogs came to the attention of Google by whatever means and they saw them linking out to JohnDee's site in an attempt to manipulate the rankings artificially or however they phrase it and as a result decided to penalise the whole domain?
It's the similarity of the autoblogs that could be an issue, it comes across as some kind of network in G's eyes maybe?
Back monday..
Guys, this is exactly why people can't stand certain forums, like Warriors. A goddamn food fight in almost every thread. That's what makes this forum different, and way better in my humble opinion. That's why I am here, and not there.
And seriously (I am being dead serious), 99.9999% of all arguments are on things that can't be proven. Which pisses me off even more. What's next? Fighting over religion and aliens?
You are all bright dudes and make this forum a better place. Can you all please go to your corners, grab a nice beer, and watch some Olympics or something?
Thank you,
Dad
Everybody was out of hand. It usually just takes a couple guys, and then there's more. Do you guys like hockey? That's how hockey works. A couple guys asking how each other's mother is doing during a game...
Anyway, I'm watching some MMA right now, so let me watch a real fight.