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2017 Link Building Information from Website Magazine



  • @shaun i think we are in different types of business so I am fascinated reading your updates. I own a FMCG business/brand. We have 70+ owned PBN sites (with another 25 waiting to be built) that are active as PBN. I just bought 30 fresh domains which are under construction right now, but for non-english markets. Our main markets are north america and china. So all new focus is on china and likely of no value on this thread as we aren't too concerned with G rankings down there. 
    Back to the north america market, my PBN effort is 100% long-term focus. I could care less how they perform short-term. I fiddle with other trending tools for short-term activity (SER, MR, FCS, etc). As they are long-term, everything about them is legit and manual. I would say that I treat a PBN like most people would treat a MS. To date, I have lost a ton of blog type tier 1's (web 2) across the last several algo updates, but I have never lost a PBN in the index or ever been scorched too badly. In fact, it has been my MS that bounces in the updates, not the PBN's. So this tells me that the SER type stuff has held me back a bit because it was too close to the MS. When I sat down and really analyzed my profile, I was shocked at how many links in my t1/t2/t3 were just not there anymore. Over the years I had built several hundred thousand links on those tiers. Fred wiped them out. Of course all of my PBN's were fine.
    For your plan, sounds good! Are the 4 MS pages on the same domain, same host? I am guessing you will get a boost on the web 2 side, but would also guess the long term would be the ones without web 2 would level up at some point and then be more valuable as they have less back-end baggage to worry about. Again, anxious to watch your results. Good luck.
  • redraysredrays Las Vegas
    edited August 2017
    @leon - great shares, thanks :)

    Based on your first and third graphs, I'd say you need more like 15-20 fresh domains to get the same effect. Wouldn't you agree?

    edit: can't seem to get the tag feature working right :\
  • edited August 2017
    Well yeah just like I said, they definitely work if you know how to build tiers properly and what anchor ratio should be chosen. For my part I have just sent a couple of GSA + SEREngines campaigns on T2 and some long tails are ranking top. Though the question is - is it worth the effort? I personally feel better off finding one but strong expired domain than setting up tens of new sites and then powering them up.

    BTW I try to adopt to the actual working methods. I believe sahun's and viking's method is the seo of 2020 and this is how you will need to rank in the future. Atm I focus at the working methods nowadays and don't really give a fuck about the future. Who knows, maybe a world war will start next year and my profession will not mean shit? So yeah...
  • shaunshaun
    @viking I'm hoping to rebuild in the affiliate/display ad space rather than biz based stuff so the hope is to be able to workout a keyword comp that this works for and then scale into it.

    3 of the pages are on the same domain and one on another, one on hostgator and one on cloudways.

    @leon Just for clarification when you say you find one domain and use it for tens of new sites. Do you just pin all the linking post to the juice page on the aged domain or do you repurpose it totally and build out a brand new website and then linkout from their own internal pages rather than pinning pages to juice pages.

    Although PBNs are something i'm pretty new to, my past one and my new one are all based around pinning the linking post to the juice page. I have some that link out to three or four pages but never went any further.
  • I did not mean I point 1 PBN to 10 money sites. I meant 1 decent expired domain equals to 10 PBNs set up on expired domains and powered up with GSA + SEREngines. This is just a result of a test I carried out. However others may have a better strategy of building tiers to a fresh new PBN domain and might have better results.

    I usually re-purpose the PBN but in some cases it simply will not work. This can happen if the previous niche does not match with your new content + domain has too many 404 (old urls does not exist). People tend to restore the old version from archive. It will not have that much power due to lack of relevancy but you know it will work.
  • shaunshaun
    So I have bought 25 fresh .coms for a new test network. 23 are set up and live, 2 are taking ages to propagate the new name servers but I will set them up once complete. Got all of the content to link to my money sites now but I will add it over the coming days rather than blasting it all out at once.

    I have crunched some numbers and I think if this network helps to increase traffic then I will build a 100 domain manual one. I have spoken to my writers and two of them have WordPress experience, one has agreed to write my filler content to link to random sites for me at a rate of 100 x 500 word unique human made articles per month for $350. The other will be doing my linking content at a rate of $5 per 1000 words.

    If it works I will post back with an update.
  • @shaun good luck! Are you planning to randomize all the variables? separate hosting, or at least separate cblock, random admin details, etc etc  For my PBNs I seem to have had the best luck with 500+ word articles posted 1-2 times per week. Never any ob links on mine until site is indexed. I am looking forward to your updates.  I am all in on PBN's. I think powering them up individually gives you a lot more seo options going forward. I am trying to sort where to sprinkle in the automated stuff now.
  • shaunshaun
    Cheers :).

    Hosting is split but I haven't paid much attention to their cblock IPs as I am using cloudflare to help mask their servers. It is a foot print but I have read up on cloudflare and between 2 and 4 million sites currently, use it apparently and I plan to try diluting the link profile with SER contextuals for WordPress, Drupal, and Joomla as well as manual web 2.0s for around half of the tests to try not just have cloud flare sites pointing to the targets to see if it has a positive or negative effect. If this initial one works though I will probably just get the 100 domain hosting plan from Easy Blog Networks and let everything site on their own host and keep it totally seperate.

    Not sure what you mean by admin details, for this initial one I have them all on the same registrar account but have private whois on but there are ways around that. If it works I will take steps to add fake client details to my accounts and name them as owner. Admin details on the actual wordpress logins are random such as article published by xxx.

    As I am using SER to automate the filler article posting every post needs an outbound link on it so SER can verify it so I have like 100-250 niche related URLs to the filler spins that are 500-1000 words. The initial batch of 12 I set test posts off to a few days back are indexing at around 95% right now so i'm happy.

    A random guy on Upwork messaged me about letting him do my manual web 2.0 work but the current guy I use works out cheaper with my coupon code for 10% off so I plan to stick with him for my manual web 2.0 T2's but may look else where in the future.

    Started to notice movement on my stuff from a few month back now too, some stuff has climbed to around position 15 and a churn and burn parasite I set up about 6 month back currently has over 1,000,000 links spread over two tiers has finally started to climb for some reason but I am planning on sticking with building out these domains for long term based stuff.
  • shaunshaun

    So a bit of a good news/bad news situation. There was an increase in traffic for the target pages by at least 7 percent within days of the links being added. Their SERPs remained pretty constant for tracked keywords though so i'm not sure if this was just long tails popping in and out of the SERPs due to the new links from clean domains.

    Bad news is I was toying with some test projects in SER and my scheduler set them to active so they blasted the crap out of the domains and sent everything to index so i'm classing those domains as dead lol.

    Decided to rebuild a 25 domain network though with 100% human made content, no spins with some tests for various tiers lined up too. Current thinking is pretty much the screenshot below but with the T2 and or the T3 cut off for some keywords for testing, no non-contextuals blast, I will probably use an indexing service.

  • @shaun awesome early result with the traffic. I think we are on to something there. Too bad about the accidental blast. Sort of like shooting your foot :-) 
    Just to overlay what I am doing relative to your diagram, I stop at the Manual Web 2 piece. Not doing any blasting right now. My MS is just fine without it, so why do it.
    I do have another need for blasting though. I am building a subdomain of my MS which will be in Chinese. I am 100% clueless on seo market in China, but I am going to start by ripping into it with heavy SER activity. The subdomain will be hosted elsewhere so I am hopeful that is enough to keep G from slapping my MS. But not sure how G looks at these things, guess I'll find out soon enough.
    Your diagram looks reasonable to me. I think the bridge network is the key. Good luck!
  • michty6michty6 UK
    edited August 2017
    Have also been thinking the same.  Was also thinking what if you went fully 'white' hat (I don't agree such a thing exists) and just built out niche related money sites in your name?  I regularly see multiple sites owned by the same people ranking in Google (sometimes for the same KWs), so how much do you think hiding the fact the new sites you are building are not yours matters?  Worth testing ;)?

    Second thought is that if GSA -> Money site doesn't work anymore, then - taking that argument to it's logical conclusion - why would GSA -> Any site at any tier work?
  • shaunshaun
    @michty6 I have been putting the majority of my focus into this project for the past two weeks now and strangely find it enjoyable working directly with the domains rather than an automated tool but I can see it getting boring soon enough and me just outsourcing the posting to someone.

    *THEORY* My thinking for any type of link these days is that is has to last months before any juice flows from it with some kind of alive checker in there too that is able to reduce/turn off link juice if the page the link is on goes offline.

    So if you have 100 T1 SER links for example in a three tier system as below.

    T1 - 100
    T2 - 2500
    T3 - 62,500

    I literally posted some retention checks in my BHW journey thread today with the link retention of my SER batches ranging from 43% of links dead all the way upto 68% of links dead so lets take an average of around 55% of links will die.

    The tiers now look like this.

    T1 - 45
    T2 - 1125
    T3 - 28,125

    A problem we now have is that out of the 1125 T2 links, 55% (could be more could be less) of them could be pointing towards the 55 dead T1 links. It gets worse when we move to T3 where 55% of the T3 links could be pointing to the 55% of the T2 links that died or to some of the 1125 links that are alive but are pointing to the 55% of T1 links that died.

    Then you have indexing, my current rate for SER links is around 60% so the tiers now look something like this...

    T1 - 27
    T2 - 675
    T3 - 16,875

    But in addition to the problem above with these alive indexed links, we now have to think that some of the alive and indexed T2/T3 links are pointing to either dead links or alive T2 links that are not indexed too meaning out of the 16,875 links on T3 only a small percentage may actually manage to point all the way through to the 27 T1 links. I'm nowhere near good enough to do that math though :P.

    Then out of the 27 T1 links, say one of them that does have links from T2/T3 pointing all the way through to it goes offline for whatever reason you have lost all that effort.

    I also have a theory about links going on and offline and G stopping any link flow from it but I have no way to know if it's correct or the % of links affected.

    You can do things like link to multiple pages in the above tiers or put a delay on your tiers and stuff like that to try work around it but then you have a bunch of pages with dead links on it and your whole project with delays would have to be offset months.

    To counter this, my plan is to use a bridge network for T1 where I have 100% control over the link and know it will stay alive with a T2 of manual or automated web 2.0s as their retention rate is pretty solid and their index rate is around 80% rather than 60% and they have a good uptime. Finally, if I use a T3 of SER contextual links I get something like this after the above factors are taken into account.

    T1 - 100 alive and indexed 100 built.
    T2 - 1800 alive and indexed 2500 built.
    T3 - 16,875 alive and indexed 62,500 built.

    Because I know the T1 is going to hold and that the T2's retention will settle after a week or so I can put a delay on my T3 for 7 days and have the T2 alive check before it starts to build meaning that all of the 16,875 T3 SER links that stay alive and index are pointing to a T2 link that is alive and indexed and in turn pointing to a T1 link that is alive and indexed.

    Or more probably I will use SERE for T3 instead of SER and have something like this or I may blend SER into the T3 too or add in additional T2 projects to the T1 that are SERE and or SER with no T3 to them but keep the T3 below...

    T1 - 100 alive and indexed 100 built.
    T2 - 1800 alive and indexed 2500 built.
    T3 - 41,000 alive and indexed 62,500 built.

    Another way to go knowing you have a relatively stable T1 and T2 is just turn up the SER link volume on the T3 as SER links are crazy cheap when compared to SERE links.

    For example, say SERE costs $3 per 1000 accounts and you set SER up to let SERE post to each of those accounts five times, this means you would be paying around $25 per 41,000 T3 SERE links per campaign.

    If you use a SER T3 you get a premium list and GSA CB and you can use it on as many campaigns as you like with as many links as you like so for the same price you could increase your inital T3 link count by 2, 5, 10, 20 fold or whatever you like giving you something like this is you increased it by 10 fold.....

    T1 - 100 alive and indexed 100 built.
    T2 - 1800 alive and indexed 2500 built.
    T3 - 168,750 alive and indexed 625,000 built.

    Anyway, my writer has finally came online so i'm going to have over some jobs to her then i'm off to bed :).

    Like I said though, the numbers in that are rought with a bunch of example cases but hopfully it will help explain the concept I am running with.
  • Love the concept.  I think you are right in that there is some kind of delay before link juice takes effect in the algorithm.  I had heard it on the PBN side too - such as this post which even claimed to have it specified to around 36 days:

    So assuming there is an X days delay before your link does anything, your concepts and math are very interesting food for thought.

    What are your thoughts on not having your T1 network private but in your name?  I am thinking of doing that - instead of hiding the footprint, completely own it.  Take all the steps to make it seem like a legit business - have a GMB verified listing attached to the domain, public WHOIS matching the address on the site, citations, reviews (etc). I think this is where Google is going - trusting what looks like 'real' businesses regardless of footprint...

    Of course you could do all this and hide your footprint I guess... Just in case ;)
  • shaunshaun

    I have seen a Google Webmasters video where that was one of the questions actually but due to there being so many of them I can't remember its title. Basically, though a guy asked if interlinking all of his domains is ok or would G slap him for it. The guy from Google said its totally fine provide the links are relevant to the post, provide value to a reader and the posts stick to the web master guidelines with it being unique content and not spun and such. I haven't tried it myself though.

    Another reason to hide your footprints is other IMers though. If all your sites are in your name it wouldn't be hard to reverse look up them, extract all links and go over the sites looking for money sites and then take the keywords.

    I have had a few people email me with links to some of my money sites now thankfully they are ones all lost in Penguin or Fred and I think I have taken enough steps to prevent it happening in the future. On the plus side the people who emailed me were all nice guys and did it to give me a heads up that I had left myself open and I still talk to one of them regularly.

    Basically, it was due to not using who is or turning off its auto renew and one was the server IP, he just scanned it and pulled all the domains off it and sent me a list and about 30% were mine in some way.
  • redraysredrays Las Vegas
    @shaun - great posts :)
  • very great post
    Once links make how do you get it to be indexed?
    What service did you use?
    Are there services better than other value for money?
    Thanked by 1tevin007
  • Backlink submission only high page rank site with unique content that is good.If good organic seo method use like manually submission like blog post,article submission,press release submission,RSS feed,classified site submission,directory submission,social bookmarking and many more if onpage optimization better depend on site analysis.
  • draculax  Don't spend money on indexers. Not worth at all. Leave it and it will get indexed automatically.
  • shaunshaun
    So I have been running a whole bunch of tests on this Bridge Networking concept and recently published my update for November over on BHW. Those two sites have had a fair few different things tested on them and I half expect one of them to fail eventually.

    I planned to start scaling in January but after smashing out my keyword research much quicker than I thought I would I have decided to get some content ordered for a new site and get it online ASAP.

    This new site will be building on everything I have learned over the past few month from my stage one test sites and be mainly focused on the bridge networking concept as well as manual web 2.0s.

    I'm not really expecting to find out if the site worked until its at least Five month old but I will be sure to post an update in this thread either way :). I will also probably start posting on my blog again in the new year as well as possible uploading content to my YouTube channel :). Really looking forward to seeing how this site gets on :).
  • @shaun - good on you for sticking it out and finding a method that works. The huge time delays we deal with now are very frustrating, but there's nothing more satisfying than seeing all that patience pay off :) Look forward to reading what you publish in 2018.
  • shaunshaun
    @redrays cheers man :).

    Finally managed to get most the content orders out for this new site so decided to start organizing content batches for a second new site tomorrow to use the BN as its link base.

  • Hi @shaun
    In the process of making links for tier 2, 3. do you use the kontent machine?
  • shaunshaun
    @thanhlong24 I don't anymore, I have stopped using all autogenerated content now. I did used some manual spins in SERE for some of the money pages as a T2 but the majority of them were just T1 links with 100% unique human wrote content.

    I am re-evaluating everything again though as I was hit by the rollout on the 12th. I don't think it is due to using a bridge network though in all honesty. I have a list of stuff to go over but I already have my next site online that I plan to do some tests with to see if it can get to the top 3 using a few twists on the bridge network concept. 
  • Yes, @shaun

    So the content for gsa to build links for tier 2 is really difficult for me
    Can I use Vietnamese content on English sites to get backlinks?
  • shaunshaun
    @thanhlong24 No idea tbh mate. So much has changed in the past year or so. I can remember a few years back there were a few blogs based on multiple languages but I have no idea if they are still going or not.

    For example they would type their posts up in English and then again in Spanish and publish them on the same domain and Google would give them traffic.
  • @shaun
    What about web 2.0? I am currently using Vietnamese at web 2.0
  • redraysredrays Las Vegas
    @thanhlong24 - things are much looser for most (all?) non-English versions of Google. My guess is that you can get away with using Kontent Machine, putting Vietnamese content on English sites, and a bunch of other things. You may have trouble with webmasters / automated filters taking your posts down, but I don't think you'll have trouble with Google.
  • shaunshaun
    Pretty much what Redrays said. At the end of the day, you won't know until you try it. I'm not sure if we have anyone else working in the Vietnamese markets on here who might have tried this before.
  • @redrays @shaun Thanks!

    im must testing more :)

  • shaunshaun

    Yea man, testing is the way forward. Doing some PBN V BN tests this week and next before deciding what one I want to scale.

    I have also uploaded a video on the Bridge Networking concept and my experiences with it so far -
    Thanked by 1Deeeeeeee
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