@rad thanks for the info man, I use SEMRush/SEOQuake tool bars, but will try Moz too. At the moment, my CF is really high but TF is low - usually means penalty but rankings say otherwise. Just want to increase my TF on a few sites. I've been getting handmade 2.0s done for all of my sites (lots of money spent...) but hopefully they will be the difference, I think my old T1s were to blame TBH.
Why is everyone so obsessed with TF? Google doesn't give a damn about these external metrics and although it kinda correlates with a quality link, increasing TF by itself never should be a goal.
The way I sort SAPE is by extracting all links. You can do this manually, with a bot or with a plugin like Link Klipper. SAPE in particular kinda sucks because it has some weird Russian redirect domain in front of those links, but you can just delete them in Notepad++.
Once I've done that I cut them to root domains, remove duplicates and put them in the Majestic bulk checker. Depending on the PR I remove all domains without at least "X" referring domains. This is a huge time saver because up to 90% of the SAPE sites have fake PR (and mostly under 10-20 ref. domains). Once I've done that I manually check the site structure to guesstimate wether the link still holds the corresponding PR. I don't use metrics like PA/TF/CF because the analytical value is waaaaay to imprecise. Anyone experienced with SAPE knows there are PR 4 links with TF of 45 while there are also PR 6 links with TF 25. Now guess which one Google values most?!
For about 10 bucks you should be able to find as much link juice as the crappy third-party SAPE providers charge you for $200.
@rogerke I take all metrics into consideration when purchasing domains for PBN PR/DA/PA/TF/CF. But PR is very outdated at the moment, there is a chance that PR6/PR4 you talk about is devalued and is no longer strong.
I think that is why people use other metrics to make better educational choices.
I always wanted to try SAPE but account verification seems like a pain. SAPE resellers as you mention are to overpriced. Wish they made english version
@rad Just starting to study the SAPE links, I have 2 noobie questions, if you have time to answer.
1) What's wrong on indexing sape links? Also with SER we usually index all the links we get from it 2) how it's possible that you can chose the SAPE links? WHen you buy links, I think that when you get them they are already live, with your money-site link inside, so how can you make a selection and refuse the ones you don't like?
When purchasing PBN domains I disregard those metrics as well. It's true that the PR is wrong/fake in a lot of cases (mostly because of 301's), but it's pretty easy to find out if you manually check the (PR of the) backlinks. It takes a lot of work though.
That's why someone coded me a custom python script which is running a large part of the day. It pulls the backlinks and the PR of those backlinks from (soon to be) expired domains. It uses a backlink checker which is not really well-known (luckily, because my automatic requests have crashed the site several times). It's set to automatically disregard any domains which don't have at least a PR 5 backlink. I then manually check wether 1) the backlink still exists and 2) wether the site structure still supports the PR of that backlink. I also delete all domains with OBL>10 backlinks. This way it's pretty easy to find dozens of quality expired domains a day. If anyone is willing to cough up the $500 registration fee I even have a .ne domain with a PR 8 OBL 4 backlink.
One thing I've noticed though is that the analytical value of those external metrics is basically worthless because there are domains with 2 PR 2 backlinks with a DA/TF/whatever of >20, while some of these PR 5 backlink domains only have a DA of 8.
SAPE account verification is really easy BTW. If you need help you can PM me. It's really just a matter of contacting them, explaining the verification issue and the next day you're g2g.
1) because they are powerful! If you know what you are doing when purchasing.
Its too much juice being picked up at once, looks unnatural in googles eyes.
Gsa links are not powerful. This is like building out a blog network and having
200 blogs, all of a sudden have links pointing to your site.
2) you can manually buy them, thats what i do. or you can automatically purchase
and get the links, but you dont know what you are getting. I just go shopping on sape
and manually inspect every site purchase. You can delete whatever you want.
@rogerke You are my New Hero, custom monty python script? Sounds amazing!
Your set up is very confusing, if it doesnt have a pr5 link coming into it? What good
is that? could be a pr0 and have tons of juice coming through. You can go on sape
and buy all the pr4 to 6 links and have nothing coming in, what good is that? people
rely on cf and tf, moz rank, because pr means nothing, unless it has its history to support it!
Sounds like you have it backwards and you go by pr, not its metrics. Anybody can
go buy a pr6 backlink and have lets say a pr8 coming into, so what? is the pr8 a 301,
does it have its metrics to support it?
One thing I've noticed though is that the analytical value of those external metrics is basically worthless because there are domains with 2 PR 2 backlinks with a DA/TF/whatever of >20, while some of these PR 5 backlink domains only have a DA of 8.
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, because they are weak my friend!
Why would you manually check to see if the pr is real? They do have fake pr checkers my friend!
I only read some Dunning-Kruger rambling. It's obvious you have no experience with this and don't have single clue what you're talking about.
You have it totally backwards my friend. I bet you also don't have a single clue about the rank correlation between these metrics and PR, now do you? I'm not going to explain the technical mechanics behind this but I suggest you pick a couple of hundred SAPE links, manually check their backlink profifle, guesstimate the current PR and calcute the rank correlation coefficient between actual PR and any of your beloved external metrics.
You'll soon see their sensitivity isn't enough to efficiently use them to pick PBN domains or SAPE links.
Here's a quick example so you might finally understand what I'm talking about.
Example 1:
ingovernment.nl (goverment related domain; many backlinks from high PR Dutch governmental websites)
Stats: PR5/DA25/PA38/mR5.40/TF25/CF21
Example 2:
***dk*pe****v**reker***n.org (competitor car insurance website, not going to out anyone publically so PM for actual link)
Stats: PR3/DA23/PA47/mR6.48/TF26/CF26
All metrics but PR are pretty close (overall the second might actually look a bit better), but which link do you think holds more link juice?! As you probably know PR is logarithmic ( scale unknown but estimated at 6-10), so the former link holds ~36-100x more link juice. And this is not an exception to the rule at all. Maybe now you'll finally understand why these metrics are basically worthless.
Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.
Oh, how very big of you. You're an alpha male, are you? Well, let me clue you in on something: Alpha Males haven't been in charge for a good couple of decades. Obviously, this tirade is directed on a High School level. Once you get out of high school, and begin working at your dead-end office job, you know who your boss is going to be? That's right, that pasty nerd you made fun of. It's funny, you see. The majority of the women you are talking about, despite the blatant lies you've slipped in, and the generalizations which remain moderately untrue, are frankly, idiotic sluts. The fact that you're trying to taunt us with them is inane, because while they sound appealing in text, in reality, we wouldn't want anything to do with the ****ing skanks. And furthermore, thank you for "****ing every girl in the school (I bet you can bench 2000 pounds too, amirite?)." Honestly, thank you. Why, you may ask? Because, by taking away the easy route, you have brought pain upon us. You have brought us misery, you have forced us to adapt to that misery, and to grow as people. Luxury doesn't incite growth, pain does. So while you're busy sticking it in your AIDS-ridden skanks, we're studying, learning, gaining skills that are necessary for life. You may scoff at this, call us stupid nerds for not getting the pussy while it's hot, but guess what? We're going to get it eventually. You said so yourself, women love power. So, eventually, you're going to find a women you love as much as she primally needs you. You're going to get married, maybe settle down a bit. Wild sex for the first two years, but after a while, she'll get ansy. She'll grow tired of the novelty of the Alpha Male. Your relationship will become the dull forced marriage that is seen constantly in America. You'll likely divorce her and move on, getting a younger wife that'll need you as much as your old wife did when you first married. Seems swell, doesn't it? I can assure you, it isn't. By now, we have risen to power. While you live the life of the swingers, we are the Senators, the Chairmen, we are the rulers of life as you know it. We have transcended your pitiful existence, and control every aspect of your very fate, without you even so much as noticing. By now, we have the money and the power, and as Scarface once said (We know you love him, and have his poster on your bedroom wall,'cause you're cool like that) next we get the women. And guess who it is that loves power, as you said women do? That's right, it's your little skank of a wife! Now, most of us will likely have settled down with a wife, but I'm sure there are plenty that would be glad to take your wife when she dumps your sorry ass to go to the people she knows have the real power. And, as we get older, our fortunes and power will grow. We'll eventually get a few trophy wives, settle down a bit, and live in the lap of luxury. Meanwhile, you, the "Alpha Male" will be left alone. By the time you hit thirty, your primal attraction, your ONLY asset, will begin to fade. Your third wife in ten years will grow tired of your old, pitiful body, and will leave you. Stuck in a dead-end job as one of our pawns, you will grow old and even less appealing. Eventually you will die an old and unloved man, either by taking your own life, drowning yourself in booze, or perhaps merely out of your own misery. So go ahead. Brag about how many women you are ****ing. Call us losers. We may seem to be upset, and you may mock our pain, but I assure you, we know your fate. And we are smiling inside.
What happened here? This was a good thread. @rogerke Do you find the time spent checking the backlink profile and estimating the PR vs using the universally limited and flawed proprietary metrics to be worth it?
Looks like this thread took a turn for the worse, which is a shame, as it's great to hear everyone's different opinions, the ways they use SAPE, and how hey measure the 'value' of a link.
Anyway, here's what I do...
I use the internal PR filters (and a couple of others) in the sape UI, in conjunction with a plugin to show me the TF/CF data. I then disregard any where the metrics don't roughly balance, and where they fall below a certain threshold.
I agree that in isolation TF/CF and toolbar PR can be useless metrics, but my time's limited, and I need to filter them down a bit more to make, as @jpvr90 said, an 'educated' decision.
I then reserve them all, download them all as excel, run whatever checks i need to, paste any that I don't want back into the relevant field on the same page, delete them and buy the rest.
Works for me, and doesn't take up too much of my time, but obviously others will have their own ways they like to do things that work for them.
Yes, without a doubt. In the case of SAPE links, it really doesn't take more than 10-15 seconds per page (so it's about the same time as manually checking external metrics). You just have to make sure the page is close to (i.e. linked) from the homepage or a (high PR) subpage and you're g2g. To give some context: even with my initial referring domain filter, I guesstimate the PR of about 50% of the links is still wrong. In some cases the entire site structure has changed, links to the page have been removed and/or pages have dropped to a back alley (very common with blog/news pages).
This is also the reason why these third party SAPE providers are not worth their money. They either don't use any filter at all, or at best they use the wrong filters. So you're not only paying a huge premium for their service (which is often 10x the actual price of the SAPE link), but you're also getting suboptimal links.
In the case of domains for PBN's, it's a bit harder because at most only a handful out of every 1000 expired domains have genuine PR5 OBL <10 backlinks. So unless you can (semi-)automate the process, it'll take a lot of time to find these nuggets. It really depends on individual to make a decision of the quality of the domains he wants and the time/effort he wants to put into it.
Honestly spoken, this statement is just plain wrong. Knowing exactly what some links cost and what they go for, unless you go completely unfiltered (this means nothing but PR for me) no sape reseller is going to achieve a 1000% margin. Just won't happen.
If you sell shitlinks to your customers with fake PR and stuff, possible. If you sell links that actually have some power behind, you won't be able to get these margins you mentioned.
It's wrong at all and you know it. No matter what filters you use, you can get great PR 4 links for 20-25 RUB, PR 5 for 50-70 RUB and I won't even speak about the lower PR's because most of the time you can get them for pennies (yes, probably hacked and shit.)
I'm sorry if you're a SAPE reseller and I'm outing the prices. If you are who I think you are, you're great guys, provide a great service with great CS and if I didn't want to go through the hassle of learning SAPE, I'd definitely recommend you. But the prices are what they are.
I will say that there are often only a couple of dozen of good >PR 4 links available for that price, so if you're a really big reseller, you'll probably have to pick the more expensive links as well (which as you know often don't even have better external metrics). So in that regard you might be right (still a margin of several 100's %), but on an individual level it's definitely true.
@rogerke I am probably the one you think I am, but I'm not selling innerpage links, hence the surprising 1000% margin doesn't apply to homepages at all. On innerpages, there's a decent chance to grab several 100%s sometimes UNLESS you do volume, true that.
Comments
I think that is why people use other metrics to make better educational choices.
I always wanted to try SAPE but account verification seems like a pain. SAPE resellers as you mention are to overpriced. Wish they made english version
Just starting to study the SAPE links, I have 2 noobie questions, if you have time to answer.
1) What's wrong on indexing sape links? Also with SER we usually index all the links we get from it
2) how it's possible that you can chose the SAPE links? WHen you buy links, I think that when you get them they are already live, with your money-site link inside, so how can you make a selection and refuse the ones you don't like?
Thanks
Anyway, here's what I do...
I use the internal PR filters (and a couple of others) in the sape UI, in conjunction with a plugin to show me the TF/CF data. I then disregard any where the metrics don't roughly balance, and where they fall below a certain threshold.
I agree that in isolation TF/CF and toolbar PR can be useless metrics, but my time's limited, and I need to filter them down a bit more to make, as @jpvr90 said, an 'educated' decision.
I then reserve them all, download them all as excel, run whatever checks i need to, paste any that I don't want back into the relevant field on the same page, delete them and buy the rest.
Works for me, and doesn't take up too much of my time, but obviously others will have their own ways they like to do things that work for them.
10x of the actual price of the sape link...
Honestly spoken, this statement is just plain wrong. Knowing exactly what some links cost and what they go for, unless you go completely unfiltered (this means nothing but PR for me) no sape reseller is going to achieve a 1000% margin. Just won't happen.
If you sell shitlinks to your customers with fake PR and stuff, possible. If you sell links that actually have some power behind, you won't be able to get these margins you mentioned.
@theseo1 Are you a sape reseller?