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Pay on Performance SEM

Anyone do PoP SEM? I have a few clients now as everyone seems to distrust SEOrs and have been burnt in the past, so I now offer PoP % of sales. 

I recently took a bathroom site from £5kpm to £21kpm and they dicked me over just before their peak season (now). So, I'm launching a competitor site and gonna dropship a wholesale bathroom company's stuff. I've removed all the PBN links, and their traffic is plummeting. Yes, contracts in place, no I didn't see it coming, no they don't owe me any money, yes I was pissed, no I'm not now, yes karma will come round and fuck him in the asspipe.

I have a fibre optic lighting company that I get 10% of revenue; just signed a oak furniture company on 50% net profit (approx £50 per sale with current products but 10x more products to be added at higher value); and a roofing company.

Now, the roofing company I've been dealing with for almost a year trying to get them signed up to a flat fee originally, he's wary and been burnt in the past, so I've been doing some copywriting and consultancy for him to get him on board. He's keen to give me a % of sales, but will struggle to track them through his site as most commercial sales call him up - my query for this is what route would you take? I am planning on building a lead gen site with no phone number and do a 'call back' setup and pass him the details. I've looked at getting a phone number and redirect the calls to one of his, but he's not keen on this as the calls/jobs are never a one-conversation thing, it takes a little time to get everything sorted and lots of back and forth.

I'm about to write a proposal for this now, but wondered if you guys have any better ideas as I'm still in the early stages of this, but as he said, the sales he gets for commercial roofing are between £20-60k and runs at a 21% profit margin and is willing to give up around 3% for each sale so even on 20k that's £120 or so for me doing not a great deal.

He looks like a really angry Dom Littlewood and an ex-boxer so I don't really wanna fuck this up lol. He's ranking OK for some good keywords with a shit site, so I know I can smash this out of the park and already have a scaffolding site for my area (not city, but multiple cities/location) that was killing it but have had to let it fall off the radar as all companies I contacted (100s) didn't get what I was doing and said they were booked up for months - good for them but completely blind at thinking about hiring more staff and expanding with my sales....weirdos.

(ps. can't remember who said it but this is why I have clients % based earning on high value easy to rank items is easier than battling mega SEOrs for payday loans, I'd rather make £500 a sale on something easy than struggle to aim at £10k a day and fail).

Best Answers

  • shaunshaun
    edited September 2016 Accepted Answer
    It was me who asked, just out of curiosity do you know what his conversion rate is on his website or anything like that? If his high price conversions are getting you around £350 it looks good on paper but could be a waste of time if he only gets one conversion a year.

    Anyway, not sure if it will help mate but check out I havent tried it myself yet but plan to on a project coming up. A friend who uses it to track his marketing for his personal trainer empire and his wifes beatuy salon. Their business cards, social media, youtube, blog, local radio and so on all have their own number so he can track where the lead is coming from.

    Your client's receptionist would have to write down the time of conversions from phone calls so you can prove it came from you with your call logs or something but it might help.

    This seems to be a basic overview of what he does but on a much bigger scale.

    Edit - He just replied on Skype, he thinks it is a US service only but im sure there would be international or UK versions if you dig around.

  • 2Take22Take2 UK Accepted Answer
    Sounds good mate, hope it goes well for you!

    Rev share is defo where it's at, providing, as you say, that you can track it effectively.

    Just a thought, but most small businesses have extremely poorly optimized sales funnels and back end marketing systems / processes - there could be some easy wins for you if he'll let you get your hands on his past customer list to set up some email marketing or leverage the data in other ways.

    If you can get involved with everything it also works in your favour, as you know that you'll be getting the best return on the leads you send, rather than them fucking up half your potential sales by doing stupid stuff like not calling them back straight away, or not keeping themselves front of mind with follow up emails, retargeting etc.

    A lot of people I know actually lead with that stuff to 'wow' the client, and don't even mention seo till further down the line, when the trust has already been built. The main focus being on providing a full marketing service. Anything they can't do thet just sub out to someone else to white label for them.

    Lots of cash to be made with this approach, and it's a nice sustainable business model.
  • donchinodonchino Accepted Answer
    Congrats, nice to see success. I assume you're not using Ser links if results came in a month.. If it's not too much to ask, do you create niche relevant small pbn for each client, buy niche relevant links or use your general pbn in such case?
  • shaunshaun Accepted Answer
    Nice man thats some awsome results!

    Just out of curiosity with your PBN, are you putting the clients links on the domain home page or on fresh internal pages?


  • Cheers @shaun - he makes plenty of money I'm sure of it  :)  but all from PPC - organic is where it's at with this, as PPC is £30+ per click so it makes sense for him to pay me a few hundred quid per sale without paying anything upfront for clicks.

    I don't know the conversion rate exactly but most come from calls not emails, but they do around £200k a month (£40k profit from what he said) from £a fewk PPC spend.

    My idea is to collect email/name/phone and then give their phone number out to call them or receive a callback then cross-reference the customers to sales - he said why would I 

    He knows that the organic #1-5 spots make far more than him, and they bolster that from PPC, but he got done over by an SEO agency and took them to court etc so he's really wary of me doing anything to his site which is understandble. - I only wanna work with him as he's been very open with numbers and I've had numerous meetings with him in their offices.

    Thanks for Grasshopper I'll take a closer look at it.

  • shaunshaun
    Will none of your current clients give you permission to show him the reports of what you did for their site and speak to him as a reference for you?
  • Yeah, some even allow me to use their data on my site, whether he's read it or not I don't know - which is usually the kicker for anyone that is wary, but he's just been fully burnt by an SEO agency. He knows that it is the right thing but this pay on performance ticks boxes far more than an upfront monthly fee which I usually charge.

  • edited October 2016
    Signed roofer up last week - > 5.5% of anything over £20k profit pm which he's been doing fairly statically for the past 11 months. His PPC budget comes out at 5.5% cost so he's happy to stick to that and I'm more than happy to take that. I reckon £100k a month is easy, especially over the next few months with people's roofs falling apart over winter, which would be £4k+pm for me.

    Let's see what I can do :)
  • Just to update this, he's now my best mate. 

    I can't say the keywords but ranked him #1 and #3 for some national keywords and many local #1s in the first month. I haven't touched his site as I wanted to see how it reacted to link building first so some more content, on-page needs a little tweak and some pages are wrong and need redirecting, and it should be gold. 

    He's brought in two more call handlers to take the increase in calls which in October are always more any way but he said this is f**king nuts. The big jobs are just waiting on hearing if they got them, one of them is worth £120k which is about £1500 for me if it comes good, and that's just one job! I'm glad I didn't get him as a client last year at £500pm.

    Fingers crossed and we'll see what happens. Got a finance company almost ready to go with the same set up PoP and again that should be insane as I have affiliate sites (that sell their products) to redirect to their site for an instant boost and I'll earn more from doing it this way (and have collateral if things go pear-shaped).

  • Not used SER since April/May all sites ranking with a general PBN. I never wanted to have many Obl but it looks suspect if it's a thin blog linking to one site in my opinion. I've made one site look like a budding content writer, one a professional writer with links to their 'client' and various spins on things like that and news portals or how to sites. They look a bit shit but so do millions of sites, the feel of them looks legit and I think that's why it works.
  • Depends if I like them or not and how much they're paying. Pay on performance and my sites get stickied to the homepage, low comp are inner. I do intend on boosting with SER but not had time and not sure whether to add a layer of manual web 2.0s before Pbn. Either way it's working right now unless target site is shit as some clients don't listen or let me change too much, and then get mediocre results until they listen.

    Just launched a huge ecommerce site so hopefully can sell clients to a competitor and be done with them. I nearly sold my Seo company a few times this year but selling clients is a better idea.
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