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How many PBNs do you have in total?

Hey guys,

Do you still scrape for expired/dropped domains or you buy them from auctions/brokers? 

I'm finding now that more and more things are getting tougher to find some real good valuable domains and auction type of domains most are not worth it 500-3000$, and yet people bid on them like mad

This is the private group, so I assume we can be more comfortable sharing and talking about some things here.

Do you know any guy or source that have a domain worth the money, I'm in health niche atm (preferably weight loss), and I need some bad-ass domain

I can afford to pay $3000, but I want pure quality and real badass backlinks, like 300 referring domains or more backlinks from all good authority websites and sources possibly.

I tried many vendors, but most are not even close to something like this. I found once on Flippa whole website and domain was 11 years old truly gem had over 300 backlinks from all known authority websites, .edu/.gov, etc., but I got late, and it was sold for $6000


  • I still have about 300, but I'm slowly phasing them all out. Too much time and hassle and to be quite frank there are way better (and cheaper) ranking methods out there.  

    I'm quite puzzled why people are still jumping on the PBN bandwagon these days. Crap domains go for ridiculous prices, you won't find any quality ones yourself anymore and if you only spend 1/5th of the time analyzing and building PBN's on reverse-engineering domains ranking in spammy niches you're waaay better off. Just my $0.02
  • Tim89Tim89
    You're phasing out your PBNs? why? :-??

    Sure it's expensive and takes up a heck of alot of time but for the love of god don't "phasing them all out" I actually scratched my head lol :D if you've built that many then keep them.

    A good network of 300 sites would easily be enough to earn a lot of income from the PBN links the network provides alone..

    As for the amount of PBNs I have, "not enough" is my answer :P
  • edited July 2016
    @rogerke I used to in past do lots of hacking like finding niche relevant casino websites and do SQL injection to vulnerable sites etc. I made great money but decided to earn on the more legitimate way and have an asset that I can sell preferably for seven figures later.

    I know that PBNs are not the only source to use to rank, but am finding them most reliable. Even average "shitty" PBNs will do a wonder in easy-medium competition niches and make you comfortable ($2000).

    Scale that to 50 websites and boom you are in six figures, but for high and incredibly crazy keywords, you need to have real badass domains with real quality links to make great rankings and stay there for awhile.

    @Tim89 Ok :D

  • 50 for now, but only just started. Planning on building 15-20 more each month. That 50 are paying for themselves over and over. I've stopped using anything else, just seeing the effects of it and it's ROI high fives all round at the moment. I have a plan, I have a strategy. I have just bought a expired domain scraper to see if I can beat the guy I buy from, as I'd like to save a bit of money, but whether I do or not the ROI is there with paying for expired domains.

    I'm happy and I'm years late in joining the bandwagon mainly as I could rank anything with SER alone. I need to bolster the T2s now with SER to maximise everything. That's all that's missing right now, I believe.

  • @JudderMan I tested all scrapers on the market, and I can say that Project Lazarus Crawler is the best one. 
  • shaunshaun
    @judderman Are you not using SER at all now then?

    I have touched on PBNs and have one project up right now but might throw a fair bit of cash at it.

    A friend is doing really well with just PBNs in all fairness.

    Just out of curiosity what kind of metrics do you go for?
  • shaunshaun
    Also @Tim89 and @JudderMan when you say PBN do you mean you are linking to your home money sites from the blogs home pages that are powered up from old links.

    Or do you mean you are just using a domain to have a stable platform for your content with your main anchors on an internal page and then you hit that internal page with T2/3?

    I know many people use the same term for both, had an idea about the second one and something that I want to test when I have the time.
  • @Anonymous OK cool thanks I'll take a look, never heard of that one.

    @shaun, yeah I stopped using SER in late May. A deliberate attempt at testing PBNs, and that I think my strategy was wearing a little thin with SER. I couldn't pinpoint exactly what I was doing that suddenly stopped making leaps forward in rankings (across 29 sites, all varying levels of competition). My hand was forced a little into trying a PBN, I like it, I've put my own spin on it, and rankings have taken nice new leaps. Obviously, I'm doing the JudderMan thing and trying some 'odd' things one of which has paid off but as I mentioned above, I'd like to blast SER to the T2s (non-PBN and test some PBN domains with SER blasts. I tend to find that hitting big links with spam/SAPE/mass contextuals really makes things shoot forward but the risk is that I don't own those T1s and could be shut down at any time.

    Metrics, I don't care. As long as they're indexed or indexable (two of mine haven't indexed and need to be binned), and have an awesome link-profile, no spam, not been a PBN, legit sites then I buy them. Some are TF5, most are TF11-20 but TBH I know from my spam tests that I can get TF40-50 within a few weeks, and I wouldn't want my worst enemy to have a link from my TF40-50s, so metrics mean absolutely jack shit to me (for the most part). have a look at this thread it'll take a few hours to get through but that's been a great help for me. I haven't followed him or anyone else's way of doing things, I sat and drew up what I think will work better and after much beard scratching I put some money down. All on a credit card too, so there was a sense of urgency to pay it back. It's paid back.

    Yes, linking from PBN to money sites. Some are WayBackMachine'd with links and content added (and a blog setup) and some are simply revamped expired domains that have tonnes of content. I semi-auto post to them, but now I have the unenviable task of making their on-page SEO better - as I think that will really help each post and the site itself be better. Some of my PBNs are ranking for my keywords, so I need them to look better too. Most are HTML sites, so I'm simply throwing some simple design stuff onto them and they look legit. Only have 10 WP sites, but TBH I want to steer clear of them.

    I'm sure there are more things people do with PBNs, but right now for me, I just want to pass some juice from their links through - also, I am just about to fire up SER now to blast the aged links pointing at my PBN domains to revitalise them and make them stronger.

    I reckon I need around 250 domains to be happy - about £10k of domains at the current way I'm buying them, I haven't ventured into auctions yet and don't really want to get into bidding wars. Once I have some decent affiliate earnings I'll sell my SEO business and invest that into a new house and more and more domains making at least £1kpm each.
  • steelbonesteelbone Outside of Boston
    i have about 300 and build about 10 per week...sometimes more sometimes less

    Not sure i would be as successful as i am without them....

    I have some clients but i LOVE affiliate money....slowly closing in on my 1000 dollars a day goal and no way in hell i would be there without my pbn....

    I do use my FCS web 2.0s too...I've had FCS from day one..Lifetime have a lot of accts there too

    I still buy some links to...Just in-case i leave a footprint this will help water it down.....
  • shaunshaun
    @judderman I have read that BHW thread I have taken a fair few notes now.

    @judderman @steelbone So are you guys just linking to one money site per domain from the home page? Do yous any other link sources on your domains?

    In the current PBN test I Have the domains are hosted on the same server but I use cloudflare to try mask that from Google, not sure if it is working or not.

  • edited July 2016
    @shaun If you have less than 100 PBNs you don't have to worry and overthink that much.

    CloudFlare is a content delivery network (CDN) which is a service designed to speed up the loading of websites and also to protect websites from hacks and attacks on the server hosting those websites. 

    It is used by millions of legitimate businesses around the world for non-SEO reasons, and that makes it perfect to use as part of your PBN hosting strategy because it is not possible for Google to differentiate between business owners and SEOs who use it. Thus, Google cannot penalize you for using Cloudflare.

    In short, CloudFlare has hundreds and thousands of servers and IP addresses around the world. When you host your PBN site, you host it on your server, but masked through Cloudflare servers. So, any user, including Google, sees the Cloudflare IP instead of your real server IP.
    This allows you to put dozens of sites on a single IP address (like a dedicated server) without having to worry about a footprint. Easy, effective and cheaper. I don't recommend using CloudFlare on more than 25% of your network.

    Here is a list of some web hosts for your PBN (non-affiliate links):

    Shared hosting (recommended for 5-20 sites per host)

    VPS or Dedicated hosting (recommended for PBNs of over 100 sites)

    There are many more hosts that offer shared hosting or even dedicated servers (if you want to have a large PBN and use Cloudflare). A simple Google search will reveal more if you need.

  • No mate, I do 10 OBL, full length posts 5-750words on the homepage. Looks shit but if you tweak the design it can look absolutely fine. Adding social accounts for PBNs and other shit to make the look half real.

    Nope, don't link to other sources, I've never subscribed to that dilution of link juice. 

    I used Cloudflare at first but there's a worry that you don't know for sure. I've bought some ready-made PBN domains with hosting from barbie.ken on BHW, have some on and others are manually done on regular hosting accounts. All logged on a spreadsheet and another spreadsheet for the amount of links for which site from which PBN domain and in the notes what each site has had done to it. Bit over the top but important for diversifying, timings of stuff, and for future reference.

    I have noticed that my expired domains I use as money sites, coupled with 30-40 PBN links just get to p2 of G, even though the kw research was paid for and low comp, decent monthly volume. I know I could rank them on the top 3 positions with SER which is why I'm dusting it off now and not sure if my PBN domains are just better with sites that have EMD/PMD or G doesn't like repurposed domains or my PBN domains aren't that great? Need to figure that out.
  • shaunshaun
    @Anonymous yea I already have a tiny PBN going on one experiment, a friend was saying how Cloudflare can leak your IP to Google some how, I havent had time to look into it yet though. I was thinking of getting 50 domains from a broker and putting them all on sharing hosting as he does. Costs him around $10 for a year per site and has a unique IP.

    Got a new test with SER and Web 2.0 I am trying too for a new keyword too but A fair few people I talk too have dropped SER totally now and use PBNs or Web 2 tiers. Although i'm not planning to do that as I have a working method with just SER I am wanting to start going for higher comp keywords so might need to look into blending SER, Web 2 and PBNs soon.
  • edited July 2016
    @shaun ;You can't use a different shared or cPanel host.

    cPanel is flawed. 

    Unless you have root access or your host are going to change the cPanel for everyone...move onto and a Linux server. 

    My VA could write a script to uncover all of the 10,000+ IPs on cloudflare and reverse engineer everyone's shared hosting accounts. 

    Pretty sure Google can do that with some of the brightest minds for sure, just a matter of when......

    Do this to your cPanel site

    2082 is the default port cPanel sits on and Cloudflare cannot block ports on your IP. It only hands HTTP. So 1 lookup of every site on Cloudflare IPS (all 4,000 of them) simply add :2082 on the end and deindex them all that are linking to one money site lol
  • 2Take22Take2 UK
    edited July 2016
    Cloudflair's great for squeezing a bit more out of all those shared hosting accounts we all have laying around, but if you aren't already, then make sure you delete all the records except the A record for the root domain and the cname record for www. If you do that its probably *technically* possible to see through it, but unlikely that Google would ever go to that much effort if you keep your head down. If you don't then you can simply ping the website to uncover the real IP.

    Another useful resource is Amazon S3. You can easily create 'buckets' and host (HTML sites) on there in a few different locations for pennies. You could then probably have a few more behind cloudfront as well, although I've not tried that yet, so not sure how secure amazons CDN would be to prying eyes.
  • shaunshaun
    @Anonymous  tbh mate that all went over my head :P

    Not sure if what you said still applies but I mean put each PBN domain on a shared hosting platform like these -

    Then not use cloud flare as in theory each domain should be on its own IP via the host. Still working out my PBN plan though 75% of mexperiencece in SEO is SER based, with about 20% in Web 2 and 5% in PBNs so far so I have a lot to learn now.
  • shaunshaun
    @Anonymous  yea I saw that but I took it as propaganda, the site publishing it literally sells a multi IP one dtop dashboard for IPs so it makes sense for them to slate the cloud flare method.

    I will have one of the lads I work with whos a geek for that type of stuff to look it over and see what he thinks.
  • steelbonesteelbone Outside of Boston
    Shaun....i do about 10 post per each post goes to a money site most of the time...Do add a link to say or some other high authority site

    On occasion I add a post with no links with YT video ect

    Some of my sites i use CF...Host 9 and other options that are out there

    I personally feel we give G to much credit and everyone is SO SO worried bout some footprint leak....My thought is ur only screwed if u get manually reviewed.

    I know one guy that did a 100 pbn's  about a year ago with the same shared hosting Hostgator account and is still ranking fine today...of course i would never do
  • donchinodonchino
    I have 50 sites meant to be PBN and 50 sites meant to be money sites... but tbh in the end it doesn't matter how you call them... I see a lot of money sites as PBN and some PBNs to qualify as money sites. I believe despite the metrics and backlinks, PBNs should get some traffic and socials also to give real value, so the line between PBN and money site starts to fade.

    About hosting... I have Hostnine reseller and several shared hostings. What worries me a bit that seo tools don't discover my sites hosted in Hostnine as backlinks... ya it should be a good thing against reverse engineering, right... but a bit difficult to keep track myself. What do you think... has Hostnine blocked those bots and crawlers on their server level to save bandwidth? I believe I shouldn't be too worried, cause GWT finds those backlinks.
  • steelbonesteelbone Outside of Boston
    wow- I never noticed that about H9....not sure what to think.......but ive been with them for a few years and nothing bad has i will take it as a good thing...
  • Tim89Tim89
    In all fairness guys, discussing PBN hosting services or services that are flexible for PBNs shouldn't really be shared and advised on a forum regardless if it's in the VIP section, there's a lot of services out there that are great for getting the most bang for your buck, go find them... If there's an influx usage in those services that are shared amongst us then it'll raise flags.

    I'm not trying to be a party pooper or anything but what you need when it comes to hosting can infact be answered by Google lol, if and when Google decides to come crashing down on hosting companies we'll all be affected.

    Suggesting a host that you use for your own PBNs is potentially as bad as showing your own money site to people that are your competitors, I'm not suggesting anyone is lurking with malicious intent but it does happen, PMs or Skype are good ways to go in depth lads.
  • @donchino Who cares for Majestic/Ahrefs/Moz crawlers? Google is the only one who should see your backlinks. If you are in competitive industries blocking crawlers is a MUST. Otherwise, competition will eat you alive; someone will then say if you create so good looking PBN to seem like an actual site or even better than a money site they won't realize anything.

    Well, maybe if they are newbies, but for experienced SEO all you need to do is check if the site is getting any traffic via Semrush or check via Wayback machine what site looked like previously to get crystal clear answer that site is a PBN.
  • steelbonesteelbone Outside of Boston
    Tim i agree...its why i only mentioned way was i going to mention other ones......
  • @Tim89 Yes, you are right, but also most people don't have 1000 PBNs or more, to worry that much that they are running out of places to host their PBNs. Even if you released some magic place info in public 90 % would just read it and do nothing about it as that's the 90 % of others people mindset in IM I was like that in the beginning only reading and not taking action with information that I learned

    You always feel that there is some new magic thing that you need to master or that you are not ready yet, but in the fact you are ready.

    Most people are tripping and overanalyzing things, like all of them have 5000 PBNs, wherein the fact it's 100-300 

    That is easy to host easy to manage, but when you come to thousands level, then you will need to start worrying and organizing better, getting VA, worrying for expiring/renewals date,  getting good hosts without bad neighborhoods, etc.

    I mean I could care less getting some shitty expired domain deindexed that cost like $12, but getting $1200 domain deindexed now that's something to take care about and organize with priority where should each and every domain get hosted.
  • Tim89Tim89
    edited July 2016
    @Anonymous Well I care, regardless of the price of the domain but that isn't my concern, money comes and goes but the time you put in to building the network you'll never get back even if you paid $0.01 for all your domains, they would all still take the same time to set up.

    No it's not easy, the majority of the hassle that comes with PBNs is the hosting, the organisation and the managing, not the buying of domains, that's actually the quick and easy bit and if people don't know how to, they can just buy a domain worthy of the $1200 Gucci price tag from a domain broker, that isn't difficult and I value my time more than my money.

    Oh and by the way, that should be a concern "worry that much that they are running out of places to host" well even with a tiny PBN of 10 sites, would serve far greater performance if they were on seperate hosts/IPs so yeah I guess people who wanted to create a good PBN would worry.

    I'm not saying this stuff so you can't get the information you want, I'm just saying your opinion about PBNs aren't of a person that has a PBN in all fairness well that is from what I've deduced of you, if you need help or info it would be best to speak to someone in private instead I think.

    Also to answer your main question, instead of searching for a domain(s) for your investment have you tried contacting anybody to buy links instead?
  • @Tim89 I did, most are bullshit and not worth the price. I also analyzed domains in my industry and was searching for domains that was old for ten years and had good authority backlinks, but not ranking for their keywords; I contacted owners of sites, but all of them want unrealistic amount of cash $$.$$$

    I need this for 301, not as PBN; my niche has the potential to come to mid-seven figures, I guess I have no choice but to cash eventually five figures for the domain, because auctions domains are a joke, and expired ones don't even need to mention for quality...

    And regarding PBN building discussion, I never mentioned that I build them my self, I have system and organization put all together and I have my own team, You can't hire anyone to pick domains for you because most don't know a shit what quality is, when you pick "worthy" domain everything else is easy. Period If you are not technical kind of person, then it might look like it's nightmare and time consuming.
  • Tim89Tim89
    But if you're willing to spend $3,000 then I'm sure you could purchase 3 or 4 links with that amount from those people you contacted.

    Yes this is true, there are solutions that manage your domains and set them up with Wordpress and hosting with a click of a button aswell, that's cool but you don't know their methods of hosting etc so that would force you to consult with a VA or developer to create you a good enough script so you can manage it all yourself with your own management system which is a good idea once you've reached a certain point and I would advise that too! But you'd still have to set up hosting etc unless you incorporate this process in your script + WHM and just pay $1 for an extra IP address for each new domain set up, but most just do it the old fashioned way of buying, hosting, installing and adding it to a spreadsheet which is also another good way of recording.

    If you've got the budget, I'd always prefer a link from a very authoritative domain in your niche that could even be ranking better than you, than using the money to purchase a domain for use with a 301 redirect, you can never be too sure the state of a domain when you buy it, no one can really... So it could be a waste of money. I also agree, auction prices are ridiculous but then again there are bargains to be made too! Though it is a bit tedious.
  • donchinodonchino
    Maybe suggesting some cheap seo hostings would have threat but i don't see anything bad about mentioning big services like hostgator, godaddy or h9... You can't rely on one and with shared servers i have each site on a separate server together with 300 other sites. Make your PBNs look like money sites, don't interlink them and it's all good.
  • I'll buy unused / any PBNs... Please PM me if you are looking to sell.
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