how do you guys do onpage seo now?

edited August 2013 in GSA Search Engine Ranker 1210.00 Karma
Do you stil use kw in h1,2,3 or not? kw density etc?

i hadnt really been worrying about it at all since i had no idea what works now.

but dont want to be hindering myself at the same time as its one of the easiest things to change
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Comments

  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    3260.00 Karma Accepted Answer
    I do it differently to everyone else i reckon:

    3 kws per page
    1% or less kw density per kw
    1 h tag per kw
    1 alt img tag per kw
    1 B,U or I per kw.

    Works for me :D

  • Tim89Tim89 www.expressindexer.solutions
    edited August 2013 2396.00 Karma
    I put different variations of my main keyword within the title tags (h1, h2, h3) I optimise any single
    url for around 5 keywords maximum.

    All my onsite articles are roughly 700 words and contain my main keyword three times.

    3, it's the magic number.
  • 254.00 Karma
    Silo your structure, you'll be able to reduce your backlinking efforts by 60-70% and you'll rank on multiple spots for the same keyword.
  • 1210.00 Karma
    wtf does silo your structure mean?
  • 2Take22Take2 UK
    edited August 2013 1623.00 Karma

    Siloing, or at least my understanding of it, is that it is how you link from the home page down through the pages in the site by using contextual links from within the content of the page/s, to link to other pages that target the same niche, but different keywords.
  • 254.00 Karma
    Siloing is simply structuring your website in a way that you only interlink the pages that are highly related to each other on your website. Check this graph out (its from a guy named Yukon on the Warriorforum; he's one of the rare people who know what structuring actually is):
    image

    If you want to know more about siloing, I suggest you read his posts, and also read these two, it will up your SEO game by a large margin, trust me:



     It's quite long, but it's definitely worth it. It's also a bit advanced, and I know that every guy out there has his own version of a silo structure, but this is the one that's been working flawlessly for me. 
  • 1210.00 Karma
    oh ye ive read about that before.

    fuck that noise! :P

    i try and keep things as simpler as possible
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    3260.00 Karma
    That kind of structure does work really well, the only problem with is that it really is dependent on you having a large number of articles on your site.
  • Tim89Tim89 www.expressindexer.solutions
    2396.00 Karma
    I use that structure for one of my sites, but it has 180 articles, theres not really much point in fannying about with that template if you have a site with 5 pages which includes an "About" and "Contact" page.

    go silo that.
    :P
  • 1201.00 Karma
    +1 on @Tim89 's latter point, especially with micro niche one page site lol.
  • 1201.00 Karma
    But yeah, interlinking has been proven every time for being excellent to increase a webpage's authority in eyes of Google. Search Engines do see them as a strong point that owner takes great care about interlinking to related articles and that his major content on the site is actually valuable and might be useful to visitor.
  • ronron SERLists.com
    3373.00 Karma

    I just wanted to say that @jurky3fo imparted some high level stuff - don't let it blow right over your head.

    If you do anything that has more than just a single or a few product offers, you want to be paying attention.

    By the way, it also helps with small websites if you understand how to tweak it the right way.

  • 1210.00 Karma
    ye for me i like to keep things small for now because i have to make new sites every 2 weeks or so cos every single fucking site seems to get penalized i have to try new things i have to be able to slap them up fast. my main two sites are the sam kws with 8 kws on one (one per page) and 20 or so for the other.
  • 2430.00 Karma
    I don't really have any rules, I just copy the number 1 site in Google, and add few more 'rich content' type things.
  • All I have to say is jurky3fo gave you some huge nuggets and pearls of wisdom.. 
  • edited September 2013 503.00 Karma
    People will say to not over optimize on-page but you rarely get specific explanation of what that means. Siloing the content makes good sense and is basically automatic if you use WP (or any modern CMS). Interlinking pages is very important.

    So here is my opinion on on-page based on the report linked below, research and my limited experience.

    There is a difference noted if you are building a brand vs a non-brand site.

    Title short (w/ KW first but Brands don't)
    Meta description (w/ KW but Brands don't)
    H1 (not primary KW but could be LSI, secondary or anything, just have an H1)
    A few/several H2s (non-KW just have some H2s)
    Content 600+ words (7000-8000 chars)
    Have a bullet pointed list
    Images+video (more is better, have alt tag, use KWs, I idk)
    Internal anchors = use KW (Use KWs as menu items for example)
    Link on the page to the same page with a KW anchor (probably your menu already)
    External links to related sites & do not link with KW (some disagree)

    I am not sure about KW density. KWs seem to be picked up from anchors more than content. How many searches do I see were the KW I am searching is not on the page I see in #1 (or only a partial match)? If your KW is in your title and meta description G will get the point. I sure using the KW and LSI derivatives a few times naturally in the content makes sense.

    http://www.searchmetrics.com/media/documents/ranking-faktoren/download-ranking-factor-study-2013.pdf

    But really more than anything research your serps and do what those who rank well are doing. (+1 spunko2010) Ranking is a competition right? Google tells you what you are competing with. :)

    all imho, but I have seen it work.
  • Satans_ApprenticeSatans_Apprentice SERLists.com
    edited September 2013 952.00 Karma

    Silo architecture is the secret sauce of SEO. Matt Cutts is on video saying that silo architecture works. If you aren't siloing your content you are killing your website's ranking power. Once you understand how to sculpt link juice (without nofollow), things get real easy. I recently watched a very competitive keyword jump from #176 to #12 with Zero backlinks by adding 12 pages of content into its silo. It's magic.

    Google is always looking for nodes of authority. When it finds a tightly themed silo with 5 or more high quality supporting articles, it puts the parent page on steroids. For any keyword, there seems to be a magic number for supporting articles that catapults the parent page to the first page. You can absolutely, positively get pages ranked with far, far fewer backlinks. The best part is that it's update proof. How often do you see an authority site get hammered? What's even better is that you can get other keywords ranked by accident! With the authority site I am currently working on, I had many "holy shit" moments when highly desirable, competitive keywords that I wasn't directly targeting got ranked in the top 5 out of the blue. For long term success, the goal is to establish your site as an authority. When you hit critical mass, you can get new keywords ranked very easily simply by creating a new silo with a few supporting pages. Your site becomes a ranking machine that powers itself.

    Silo architecture is simple. The rules:

    Most Important: only your silo parent pages go into the top navigation. DO NOT HAVE LINKS TO ANY OTHER PAGES IN YOUR TOP NAV. PERIOD! Your sub navigation is in the sidebar of your parent pages.
    • 1. Parents link to the children via a sidebar or list at the bottom of the page.
    • 2. Children link to each other via the same menu
    • 3. Children link to the parent with anchor text in the first paragraph.
    • 4. Children pages do not link anywhere else outside of the silo. Period.
    • 5. All pages have at least 500 words of quality content. 750 is better.
    • 6. Keyword density of 1-2%
    • 7. Include keyword stems and long tails on the parent page
    • 8. Use images with keywords in the Alt Attributes
    • 9. Use your keyword in the first sentence.
    • 10. Use your keyword in the last sentence.
    • 11. The easiest way to get ranked is to target 1 keyword phrase per page. Don't be lazy or greedy trying to get multiple keywords onto a page. Google has gotten smarter - if your content is well structured, you can get ranked for plurals and stems on the same page - example: IT Outsourcing, Oursource IT, Outsourcing IT, etc. - just use the stems and plurals on the page. Don't try and get ranked for "IT Outsourcing"', "Server Repair", and Cisco Support" on the same page. you won't get ranked for anything. Either create another silo, or make them children pages. Your SEO and content need to be laser sharp.
    • 12. Jurky3fo's diagram is perfect. Keep your silos tighter than a gnats asshole.

    For on-page, I use SEO Pressor, and a minimum of 500 words. I look at it as more of a check to make sure I've got all the bases covered. Samx's post is spot on for onpage.

    Content these days is cheap. My site is in the Information Technology vertical, and I get awesome 500 word articles that look like someone in my company wrote them for $15.

    GSA is an awesome product, and tiered link building is a great strategy. I use it. But... If you are trying to build a website on link spam alone, it is the lazy mans approach, and it is not going to last. When it comes to content, give Google what it wants, and what they want is high quality, tightly themed, siloed content with solid on-page optimization. No tricks. Build a solid foundation, and use Link building as a supplement, not a strategy. Feed the beast. Keep pumping quality content into your silos.

  • s4nt0ss4nt0s Houston, Texas
    2968.00 Karma
    Holy big block of text, batman! ^^
  • Could you explain it step-by-step?

    Just kidding, nice guide!
  • 176.00 Karma
    Silo technique is quite interesting. By using this, you are usually not ranking your main index page, but rather silo parent sites, am i right?
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    3260.00 Karma
    @Satans_Apprentice - Nice post.

    But does it really make that much difference as oppose to having a site with the same amount of content that has nav and sidebar links + related posts at the bottom of each page, in a more random pattern.

    Would be interested to split test the results against each other.

    I'm not doubting it works, just curious how much better it works against additional time taken to format a site like that.
  • widget logic + custom menus is not complicated for relatively small sites. 
  • goonergooner SERLists.com
    3260.00 Karma
    It's still sounds like a lot of work to me, by the time i have built 1 site like that i could of built 20 small simple sites.

    With the added bonus that if some of them get hit by Google it won't really affect my bottom line. What happens if you put all that effort into one site and Google decides it doesn't like it at some point in the future, no one can guarantee that won't happen no matter what structure you use.

    All depends what approach you want to take i guess, horses for courses as they say.
  • 1210.00 Karma
    im with you gooner, doesnt sound like my style either. more of a whitehatter method than blackhatters :D where you preen one site to perfection shotgun approach.
  • 2Take22Take2 UK
    edited September 2013 1623.00 Karma
    Some useful information shared in this thread, and also in the links provided..

    @PeterParker, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as 'white hat' only - a lot of this stuff has useful applications in the Black Hat realm as well.

    For instance,

    A lot of the shared information could be used as part of your competitor analysis that you carry out on the top ranking sites before you enter a niche.

    Some is useful to help carry out solid on page optimisation, even on single page sites, to help you rank them quickly and effectively, with the least resources possible.

    You can also use some of the techniques shared to help optimise your tier1 properties to make them super relevant, and ensure that you get the maximum benefit from them.
  • 1210.00 Karma
    ill keep it in mind but im trying to keep things as simple as poss at the mo and my head is epxloding form info overload already :D this i see as a 'bells and whistles' kind fo thing to add in later once i have the luxury to get a bit more creative.
  • Satans_ApprenticeSatans_Apprentice SERLists.com
    952.00 Karma
    All:
    I don't have much to contribute on the link building side. I hate being a leech, so I am trying to give something back to this awesome community.

    I am a total noob (but learning fast) with the link building stuff, but I do know my shit for onpage and and site architecture. Trust me on this. I've reorganized sites that couldn't get ranked into silos, and watched rankings explode. I cannot take credit for any of this - I didn't invent any of these techniques, but they do work amazingly well. As I said before, using this structure is penguin and panda proof - It's a 100% white hat technique, and if done correctly, is safer than ranking on links alone. Based on my research, deep, siloed sites are less prone to get hammered by Google. We routinely outrank pages with far superior link profiles. We have been using agencies for our link building, and we believe that siloed internal architecture puts tiered link building into hyperdrive. It's taking external tiered link building concepts and applying it into your site's architecture. The beauty is that it's pretty hard to get dinged by Google for internal anchor text. Combine silos with Tiered Link Building/GSA, and you have a juggernaut.

    The only hard part about silos is setting up the architecture correctly, and that's not even difficult. Once it's done, adding content is a snap.

    If anyone needs help, send me a PM.


    1. I agree with @Gooner. Silos are obviously not for every site, but I don't see it as White Hat vs Black Hat. It's low content vs deep content. This is not for churn and burn or single page sites, although even smaller sites can benefit. If you want to build a deep site that will last in the SERPS, this is the way to go.


    2. @traged: Yes, you are absolutely trying to rank the parent pages. You have juice coming from the home page, plus juice pushing up from the children. Ideally, if you have 4 primary KWs, you need 4 parent pages. I cheat a little, and my worst major keyword gets assigned to the home page. The children push juice up to parent pages, and parent pages push juice up to the home page.

    Your silos can be posts and/or pages. If you are selling multiple products in a category, the category page is the parent, and the products are the children. If not, the parent page is supported by blog posts.

    I use 2 Wordpress widgets:
    Category Posts Widget - This creates a siloed posts menu in the sidebar of pages and posts. You need to set the post category slug to be the same as the Parent page. This makes the parent page the default post category page.

    Widgets on Pages: this lets you drop the posts menu(or anything else) into a page or post with a shortcode.

    Something to keep in mind is how you distribute Link Juice on the site. Juice is distributed via links. If a page has a theortetical 1000 points of link juice, it keeps 1000, and it can pass roughly 800 points via links to other pages. If the home page has only 4 links (parent pages) in the header nav, each parent page gets 200 points.  The parents can then pass 160 points (200 x 80%) to the children. If you have 8 children posts, each gets 20 points (160/8).

    Not all links are created equal:
    Contextual link = 5x Header/sidebar Link
    Header/Sidebar Link = 5x Footer Link

    Visually:
    Footer = Soda Straw = 1x
    Header/Sidebar = Garden Hose = 5x
    Contextual = Fire Hose = 25x

    So, if your home page has 5 links in the header, and 1 contextual link, the contextual link (5x) gets 50% of the juice, and the header links (5@ 1x) each get 10%.

    Do not break out a calculator or spreadsheet for this. This is all theoretical, and Google's algorithm is much more complex, but this is the foundation of Google's methodology. Don't trust me... Check around. Matt Cutts is even on video saying that Silos are effective. The point is that you can control which pages on your site get ranked with your internal linking structure.

    Also, each page passes link juice on. If a parent page gets 200 points from the home page,  it can pass 160 points to children, and so on. Link juice moves down and up the silo. If you build external links to a parent page, it pushes juice up to the home page, and down to the children pages.

    Having a deep primary navigation system is generally bad for SEO (usability experts may disagree). You are taking link juice and distributing it evenly throughout the site. You are passing equal amounts of link juice to parent pages and pages with less important keywords. If your home page, for example, has 1000 points of link juice, and 40 links in the top nav, each page gets 20 points, (1000 points x 80% / 40), and nothing gets ranked. By limiting the top Nav to just your parent pages, you are focusing link juice on the most valuable keywords. Let the parents push link juice to the children.

    If you need a visual, picture a pyramid of 100 champagne glasses that you would see at a wedding. The wedding is low budget - only 1 bottle of champagne. When the top champagne glass (home page) shared by bride and groom is full, it pours into the next level - the wedding party (Parent Pages). When they are full, it pours into the next level, and so on. If you only have 1 bottle of champagne, the most important glasses (the wedding party) get filled.

    Conversely, if you take all 100 glasses and spread them out on the bar and pour 1 bottle of champagne evenly, each glass gets a thimble full.

    Again, this is theoretical. It is a waste of effort trying to figure all of this out exactly. The point is that your linking architecture has everything to do with which pages on your site get ranked.


  • 340.00 Karma
    Good stuff Satans_Apprentice, thanks for sharing.  I always appreciate hearing things explained (thoroughly) by different people as it gives new angles to consider. 

    My question to you, based on what you described about limiting header navigation, is about some of the "must haves" (according to many), such as "Contact" "About Us" etc. 

    Assuming they ARE as important to have on your site as many claim they are, do you opt to place them in the footer, where (theoretically) they would consume less link juice?  Do you think that would still meet the qualifications of having the pages present, whether by algorithm or, more likely, by human review?
  • Satans_ApprenticeSatans_Apprentice SERLists.com
    952.00 Karma
    @mexiken: I hate wasting link juice on meaningless pages. Every website has a finite amount of linkjuice at any point in time, and I want to use every last drop.

    Here are some options:

    1. Consolidate crappy pages. About/Contact=1 Page.
    2. Turn the "about us" page into a Silo. Put an Alt Attribute on the menu listing. Wordpress lets you do it. I use a tabs widget on pages, and I put "about us" on the first tab, and the sales pitch for the keyword on the second tab.
    3. Crap pages in the footers work great for sculpting, not so good for usability.
    4. If you are doing lead gen, put a form right on the page. No links.
    5. Use a Pop over widget. If they click on something, they get a Popup. Good for lead gen, and they stay on the page.
    6. I generally link my Parent pages contextually when appropriate if they are closely related. By doing this, you can "overwhelm" the top nav and minimize the bleeding.  For example, say you have 5 silo pages plus the home page plus 2 crap pages. Without contextual links, the crappy pages each get 12% of the juice. ((1)home+(5) silos+(2) crap=8)(1/8)Contextually link them - using math from above, 5 Contextually linked Pages at 25x = 125x. If you have silos plus 2 crap pages in the menu = 8@ 5x=40x. 125x+40x=165x.  Crap page = 5x/165x=3% of your link juice. Math is kind of dodgy, but you get the idea.
    7. Make sure to use Alt Attrib. for the home page logo. Big link juice drain. Also use Alts for pages in the menu where you can't use keywords.
    8. If you really want silos air tight, remove the top navigation from the children pages. Have 1 link back to the parent, and sidebar links to the other children. Tighter than a gnat's ass.
    9. Adding to #6, put 2 contextual links to each parent on the other parent pages. Be aware of the "first link counts rule". Google only pays attention to the first contextual link between pages. You can have contextual links from Page A to Pages B, C, D, etc., but it ignores the second contextual link from A=>B. Add a hashtag (ex:#2) to the second link, and Google will pass linkjuice for that second link.
    10. Don't use "nofollow". It is ineffective for sculpting.

    I hope this helps.


  • Satans_ApprenticeSatans_Apprentice SERLists.com
    952.00 Karma
    Gooner:

    Think of it this way. I work with IT websites, so I'll use IT as an example.

    If I am selling Cisco 3500 series routers, the perfect link is from cisco's 3500 series router page with the anchor text "Cisco 3500" to my Cisco 3500 page. If 100 theoretical points of link juice leaves cisco's page coming my way, I get the benefit of all 100 points.  If the anchor text is "click here", I may only get 75% of the link juice, and 25% evaporates. If the link goes to my Microsoft page, it could cost me another 25%. The same thing happens on your own website. If you pass irrelevant links between pages, you are spilling link juice on the floor. The tighter your linking structure is themed, the more link juice you conserve, and the better your site will rank.

    Treat your internal links the same way you treat your external links, but don't worry about penguin. Perfect anchor text and linking structure pays off huge, and it really isn't that hard to build. Implementing it on an existing site, however, can be a pain.
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